Who comes with Jesus at His second coming?

ATP said:
That is why we inherit the kingdom at the first resurrection with our glorified bodies, spirits and souls intact.
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This is not true. God has already "enabled" us to be partakers of our inheritance of the saints in light.

Col 1:12.. Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

See the word "meet"? It means "to enable" Do you know what happens when you become "enabled"? It means you have the ability right now to start partaking of your inheritance today!!!
 
CCW95A said:
Man can live without his body, but he can not live without his spirit.
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But how does man live without the breath of life in him?

Job 27:3 NIV as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils,

Job 34:14-15 NIV If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, 15all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.

Abdicate said:
But Who gave the Spirit in the first place? The combination of Spirit and flesh made a living soul. When the body dies, the flesh returns to the dust from where it came, and the Spirit back to Who gave it. The soul, well, that depends on its actions on earth, Ecc 12:7.
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Right, the breath goes back to God. After we die, we are not living in heaven "as breath". That's silly.

Job 27:3 NIV as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils,

Job 34:14-15 NIV If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, 15all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.
 
ATP said:
But how does man live without the breath of life in him?

Job 27:3 NIV as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils,

Job 34:14-15 NIV If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, 15all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.



Right, the breath goes back to God. After we die, we are not living in heaven "as breath". That's silly.

Job 27:3 NIV as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils,

Job 34:14-15 NIV If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, 15all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.
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Disagree? Ok, just don't be rude!
 
Abdicate said:
I use the scriptures I just get a bit weary of trying to prove them as most people don't see the big picture because of dogma. So when I show what I believe, it can't be shown in one verse. So what part of my beliefs do you want more information on?
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Hi @Abdicate,

I so agree that it can get trying to `prove,` some position, as often that doctrine requires many scriptures. Thus said if you would check out what I am saying about the scriptures that CCW has posted, you may want say something.

Marilyn.
 
Hebrews 12 tells us that the Body of Christ (the dead in Christ - their spirits) are in the General Assembly along with the `just men` (& women of the OT).

You have come to Mount Zion & .....to the General Assembly & Church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

Marilyn.
 
Hi @ATP,

Remember we are the `new man.` `The first man became a living being. The Last Adam became a life-giving spirit......The first man was of the earth, made of dust, the second man is the Lord from heaven. as was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; & as is the heavenly man, so also ARE THOSE WHO ARE HEAVENLY`. (1 Cor. 15: 45 - 49)

Marilyn.
 
ATP said:
I am honestly asking you, how does one live as breath without a body?
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It's not a big thing. You're making is more than it is. Is anything impossible for God? I've not read every word you've written so I don't know what your issue is. Did you read Ecc 12? If you find one, ask a new ager what the silver cord is. I'm not saying believe them (they get it wrong), but they know what it is and Christians don't have a clue, yet there it is in the scriptures.

So to answer your question. A breath is the life from God, our Spirit. But when that breath touched flesh (clay) the combination became a living soul. That soul is born dead until it accepts Christ, then the Spirit quickens that soul to life. This isn't new to Christ's followers only, all throughout the scriptures examples are given of men of God in trances, in vision states, even visiting heave, hell, and being teleported. When our bodies give out, the soul, the who we are, goes to heaven. Those souls still dead when the body dies goes to hell. It's that simple. So what's your beef with this?
 
Abdicate said:
It's not a big thing. You're making is more than it is. Is anything impossible for God? I've not read every word you've written so I don't know what your issue is. Did you read Ecc 12? If you find one, ask a new ager what the silver cord is. I'm not saying believe them (they get it wrong), but they know what it is and Christians don't have a clue, yet there it is in the scriptures.

So to answer your question. A breath is the life from God, our Spirit. But when that breath touched flesh (clay) the combination became a living soul. That soul is born dead until it accepts Christ, then the Spirit quickens that soul to life. This isn't new to Christ's followers only, all throughout the scriptures examples are given of men of God in trances, in vision states, even visiting heave, hell, and being teleported. When our bodies give out, the soul, the who we are, goes to heaven. Those souls still dead when the body dies goes to hell. It's that simple. So what's your beef with this?
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What I'm saying is that since the breath of life breathed into us gives us life, then how does it give us life if the breath of life is removed? You know what I mean?
 
Marilyn C said:
Hi @Abdicate,

I so agree that it can get trying to `prove,` some position, as often that doctrine requires many scriptures. Thus said if you would check out what I am saying about the scriptures that CCW has posted, you may want say something.

Marilyn.
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I read what you wrote. I still believe those that come back with Jesus is just the Bride.
 
ATP said:
What I'm saying is that since the breath of life breathed into us gives us life, then how does it give us life if the breath of life is removed? You know what I mean?
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Sorry I don't. Without the spirit in your body, you're dead. But the soul can leave the body. The new agers have been doing that for years. Then they can end up possessed. The scriptures show Peter, Paul's friend, John, Daniel, etc. were not in the body yet still alive. So without being tethered to the body, the soul exists in heaven or in hell. That's just fundamental. So what's the problem?
 
Abdicate said:
Sorry I don't. Without the spirit in your body, you're dead. But the soul can leave the body. The new agers have been doing that for years. Then they can end up possessed. The scriptures show Peter, Paul's friend, John, Daniel, etc. were not in the body yet still alive. So without being tethered to the body, the soul exists in heaven or in hell. That's just fundamental. So what's the problem?
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Can you show me scripture where it says we can exist without the body.
 
Marilyn C said:
Hi @ATP,

Remember we are the `new man.` `The first man became a living being. The Last Adam became a life-giving spirit......The first man was of the earth, made of dust, the second man is the Lord from heaven. as was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; & as is the heavenly man, so also ARE THOSE WHO ARE HEAVENLY`. (1 Cor. 15: 45 - 49)

Marilyn.
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I`m quoting myself here & will enlarge.

Christ ascended & now has a glorified body, as we all know. This `body` is not mortal flesh, it is glorified. Also it does not have `blood` or breath to pump the blood around. Christ`s spirit is clothed with a substance, a glorified body that can go through dimensions & realms, as we know from scripture, when the ascended Lord stood in the disciples midst, when the doors were closed. (John 20: 26)

We will have a heavenly body, not of flesh from dust, but immortal & incorruptible, that is like the Lord`s, that can go through dimensions.

How utterly awesome. Marilyn.
 
ATP said:
Did he die first and then go up? No. Did he continue to live there? No.
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Did Moses appear with Jesus on the mt of transfiguration? Yes he did!!! Did Moses ever die? Yes he did. How was he able to have fellowship with Jesus, Elijah, Peter James and John? Did Moses posses his physical body there? No, he did not.
 
CCW95A said:
Did Moses appear with Jesus on the mt of transfiguration? Yes he did!!! Did Moses ever die? Yes he did. How was he able to have fellowship with Jesus, Elijah, Peter James and John? Did Moses posses his physical body there? No, he did not.
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The transfiguration is a vision of the second coming of Christ and the feast of tabernacles. Moses represents those at first resurrection. Elijah represents those at rapture.

Abdicate said:
Not that you'll accept it, but here goes:

Matthew 17:3 (KJV)
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.​
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The transfiguration is a vision of the second coming of Christ and the feast of tabernacles. Moses represents those at first resurrection. Elijah represents those at rapture.
 
Hi fellas, @Abdicate, @ CCW95A, @ ATP,

Ok, now it is time to focus on the topic at hand `Who comes with Jesus at His second coming?` if you want to discuss it. Those other topics - bodies & Mt. Transfiguration etc are also good topics & would be better on their own thread so people can see them & not get mixed up here.

Thank you, Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C said:
Hi @CCW95A,

Thank you for replying with scriptures. So let`s have a close look at them –


1Thess. 3: 13 `...so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God & Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.`

1Thess. 4: 14 – 17 `For if we believe that Jesus died & rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus......then we who are alive & remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds...`

Thus we can see that in context Paul is referring to the `dead in Christ` coming with Him & those who are still alive will be caught up together with them. This is not the picture of Christ coming with an army to war against the rebellious. Two different events.


Jude 1: 14 ` Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these (rebellious) men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousand of His Holy Ones.`

Holy Ones – Gk. `hagio` meaning sacred, holy.


So we read that Enoch prophesied about the Lord coming with ten thousands of His `Holy ones.` Now who are these `holy ones.` If we go to Deuteronomy we read of Moses talking about this same event.

`And he said: “The Lord came from Sinai, & dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And he came with ten thousands of holy ones.” (Deut. 33: 2)

Holy Ones – Heb. `quodos,` meaning sacred, holy.

Finally we are told by David in the Psalms who these `holy ones,` are.

`The chariots of God are myriads, thousands upon thousands; the Lord is among them as at Sinai, in holiness.` (Ps. 68: 17)

The `chariots of God,` are the angels who were also at Sinai.

Holy Ones – Heb. `quodos` & Gk. `hagio` both mean sacred & holy.

And that can be angels, people, or even holy things. Now some interpreters have written `saints,` but the word is `holy one.` So we need to look at other scriptures to know specifically what is the meaning.

I will look at your other scriptures but thought you or others might like to reply to this.

Marilyn.
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Here is where we were. Any more comments before I give my thoughts on the next scriptures.

Marilyn.
 
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