Who comes with Jesus at His second coming?
- Thread starter Marilyn C
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Well, most Christians have no idea what a vision is, and lack knowledge on the feasts of the Lord. It's time to study! Oh, and also..
our spirit is translated as "pneuma: wind, spirit". How do we exist as "wind" in heaven without a brain. The flesh carries the brain...
John 3:8 NIV The wind (pneuma) blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit (pneuma)."
And ironically this precedes the transfiguration. coincidence? No..
Matt 16:27-28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matt 16:27-28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Hi @CCW95A,
Just summarising so far -
1 Thess 3: 13. Glad we both agree this is to do with the `catching away,` the rapture.
Jude 1: 14. The key word is `holy ones` which can be saints or angels. So not conclusive.
Now to your other scriptures –
Rev. 19: 7 & 8.`”Let us be glad & rejoice & give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, & His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean & bright, for the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints.`
Notice it does not say here who is the wife of the Lamb. Also the `saints` can be either saints in Israel or saints in the Body of Christ. So nothing proven here.
Rev. 19: 14. `And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white & clean, followed Him on white horses.`
We need to look carefully at the symbols –
`And out of the temple came the seven angels.....clothed in pure, bright linen..` (Rev. 15: 6)
So again we read that people & angels can be clothed in linen. This symbolises being `holy.` Thus the army is shown to be holy, whereas the A/C`s army is not holy.
There is nothing concrete yet to base a doctrine on. We need to look at what God`s word says about a `heavenly army` & what the `white horses,` mean.
Any comments so far?
Marilyn.
Just summarising so far -
1 Thess 3: 13. Glad we both agree this is to do with the `catching away,` the rapture.
Jude 1: 14. The key word is `holy ones` which can be saints or angels. So not conclusive.
Now to your other scriptures –
Rev. 19: 7 & 8.`”Let us be glad & rejoice & give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, & His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean & bright, for the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints.`
Notice it does not say here who is the wife of the Lamb. Also the `saints` can be either saints in Israel or saints in the Body of Christ. So nothing proven here.
Rev. 19: 14. `And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white & clean, followed Him on white horses.`
We need to look carefully at the symbols –
- Armies in heaven,
- Clothed in fine linen, white & clean,
- White horses.
`And out of the temple came the seven angels.....clothed in pure, bright linen..` (Rev. 15: 6)
So again we read that people & angels can be clothed in linen. This symbolises being `holy.` Thus the army is shown to be holy, whereas the A/C`s army is not holy.
There is nothing concrete yet to base a doctrine on. We need to look at what God`s word says about a `heavenly army` & what the `white horses,` mean.
Any comments so far?
Marilyn.
Is Jesus married to two separate people? I don't think so. There is only one bride not two.
When Christ comes again at his second coming ALL of his saints will be coming with him dressed in whit linen which are the righteous acts of his saints.
1Th 3:13.. To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Rev 19:7.. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8.. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Hi @CCW95A,
Let`s look at these `heavenly armies.` Does God`s word tell us that there are God`s heavenly armies prior to Revelation? And who is their Captain?
`And the armies which are in heaven, .....were following Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 14)
Army – Gk. `strateum,` a body of troops, from the base of `stratos,` an army, & fig. the angels, host.
Remember when Joshua was by Jericho with the army of Israel, he had an encounter that is very interesting.
`And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes & looked & behold, a man stood opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand. And Joshua went to him & said to him,” Are you for us or for our adversaries?”
So he said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth & worshipped, & said to him, “What does my Lord say to his servant? Then the Commander of the Lord`s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy,” And Joshua did so.` (Joshua 5: 13 – 15)
`The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them...` (Ps. 68: 17)
`And Elisha prayed & said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man & he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses & chariots of fire all around Elisha.` (2 Kings 6: 17)
God has always had His angelic army & the Lord is their Commander. Thus when He comes to fight Satan & his demonic army & the world`s armies He brings with Him His angelic army.
Marilyn.
Let`s look at these `heavenly armies.` Does God`s word tell us that there are God`s heavenly armies prior to Revelation? And who is their Captain?
`And the armies which are in heaven, .....were following Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 14)
Army – Gk. `strateum,` a body of troops, from the base of `stratos,` an army, & fig. the angels, host.
Remember when Joshua was by Jericho with the army of Israel, he had an encounter that is very interesting.
`And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes & looked & behold, a man stood opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand. And Joshua went to him & said to him,” Are you for us or for our adversaries?”
So he said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth & worshipped, & said to him, “What does my Lord say to his servant? Then the Commander of the Lord`s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy,” And Joshua did so.` (Joshua 5: 13 – 15)
`The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them...` (Ps. 68: 17)
`And Elisha prayed & said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man & he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses & chariots of fire all around Elisha.` (2 Kings 6: 17)
God has always had His angelic army & the Lord is their Commander. Thus when He comes to fight Satan & his demonic army & the world`s armies He brings with Him His angelic army.
Marilyn.
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You sure about that buddy.
Hi @CCW95A,
Now does Jesus specifically tell us who will come with Him so that we will be in NO DOUBT as to whether it is saints or angels?
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS.` (2 Thess. 1: 7)
Thus when Jesus, Israel`s Messiah comes in power & great glory, He brings with Him His heavenly angelic army.
`And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white & clean, followed Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 14)
The armies – …`& all the Holy Angels with Him.`(Matt. 25: 31)
The linen, white & clean - `the angels clothed in pure & white linen.`(Rev. 15: 6) Holy angels are described as holy – clean & white linen.
The horses – …`with power….`(Matt. 24: 30)
The clouds – `…& great glory…` (Matt. 24: 31)
Jesus describes how He comes – ` in the clouds with power & great glory,` & who He comes with, `all the Holy Angels.` I believe to add anything else is not in line with what our Lord has said.
Marilyn.
Now does Jesus specifically tell us who will come with Him so that we will be in NO DOUBT as to whether it is saints or angels?
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS.` (2 Thess. 1: 7)
Thus when Jesus, Israel`s Messiah comes in power & great glory, He brings with Him His heavenly angelic army.
`And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white & clean, followed Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 14)
The armies – …`& all the Holy Angels with Him.`(Matt. 25: 31)
The linen, white & clean - `the angels clothed in pure & white linen.`(Rev. 15: 6) Holy angels are described as holy – clean & white linen.
The horses – …`with power….`(Matt. 24: 30)
The clouds – `…& great glory…` (Matt. 24: 31)
Jesus describes how He comes – ` in the clouds with power & great glory,` & who He comes with, `all the Holy Angels.` I believe to add anything else is not in line with what our Lord has said.
Marilyn.
Not true, as it is written here.
Rev 19:7.. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8.. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:11.. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12.. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13.. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14.. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
what did verse 8 say who was given white fine "linen"? Was it angels? No, it was the "saints" Now, who do you think is the wearing these white fine linen in verse 14? The exact same people in verse 8, the saints, not angels!!!
Hi @CCW95A,
It seems you missed what the Lord Jesus Christ said regarding who would come with Him, so I`ll post the scriptures again -
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS.` (2 Thess. 1: 7)
I will comment on your thoughts re the `wife/bride,` next. Thank you for discussing with me.
Marilyn.
It seems you missed what the Lord Jesus Christ said regarding who would come with Him, so I`ll post the scriptures again -
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS.` (2 Thess. 1: 7)
I will comment on your thoughts re the `wife/bride,` next. Thank you for discussing with me.
Marilyn.
You know that the word for angels literally means messengers which means anyone who speaks the good news of God's love, not just a heavenly creature. The seven trumpet angels are people just like us, according to the word of God.
Besides what Abdicate said about the word "angel" which means "messenger". Jesus Christ himself is known as the "Angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament, sense he is the "messenger" of God for the New Testament.
Mal 3:1.. BEHOLD, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord [the Messiah], Whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant, Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts. [Matt. 11:10; Luke 1:13-17, 76.] (AMP)
Sister Marilyn, do you know what you do when you have two scriptures telling us two different things. Do you discard the one over the other, or are we to "reconcile" both of them together so we get a clear image of what is happening? Sense all the angles have been sent forth to be "ministers" for those who are heirs of salvation, (Heb 1:14) would you not think that when ALL the saints come with Jesus Christ at his second coming so will all of their angels? You can not say that the saints are not coming with Jesus when he returns when the scriptures say they are!
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Hi @Abdicate & @CCW95A,
Now that is a very good point – re: a word can have a couple of meanings. Thus we need to look at all the scriptures pertaining to the topic. So let`s look further at this `heavenly army.`
Is Jesus saying they are – angels or the Body of Christ.
1.God`s heavenly army in scripture is the angelic host. (Joshua 5: 13, Ps. 68: 17 etc. & the Lord is the Commander of that angelic host.)
2.Angels fight other angels. (Rev. 12: 7)
3. The Body of Christ does not fight the world`s armies. (fight not against flesh & blood – 1 Cor. 10: 3)
This `heavenly army has come with the Lord to fight against the `beast, the kings of the earth & their armies.`
`And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, & their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse & against His army. `(Rev. 19: 19)
I will comment also on the `wife/bride,` & the assumed connection (I believe) to the heavenly army.
Marilyn.
Now that is a very good point – re: a word can have a couple of meanings. Thus we need to look at all the scriptures pertaining to the topic. So let`s look further at this `heavenly army.`
Is Jesus saying they are – angels or the Body of Christ.
1.God`s heavenly army in scripture is the angelic host. (Joshua 5: 13, Ps. 68: 17 etc. & the Lord is the Commander of that angelic host.)
2.Angels fight other angels. (Rev. 12: 7)
3. The Body of Christ does not fight the world`s armies. (fight not against flesh & blood – 1 Cor. 10: 3)
This `heavenly army has come with the Lord to fight against the `beast, the kings of the earth & their armies.`
`And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, & their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse & against His army. `(Rev. 19: 19)
I will comment also on the `wife/bride,` & the assumed connection (I believe) to the heavenly army.
Marilyn.