Why Christians are Leaving Church

[Cturtle]

The church is not a bank

No it's much more important of an investment than a bank. Its the Father's house and should be treated better than one would treat or take care of ones own home. If we will put His house first... He will see to it to make sure ours is well taken care of also

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Amen! Amen! Amen!

Just thinking about putting up the change and remembering how God even provided the extra for the tithe of the day... or the money to cash in all the change puts tears in my eyes... of how awesome and wonderful of a God we serve!!!! And now He is doing even greater things

Amen He is Faithful unto His Word.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

No it's much more important of an investment than a bank. Its the Father's house and should be treated better than one would treat or take care of ones own home. If we will put His house first... He will see to it to make sure ours is well taken care of also

Oh man Amen Sister !!

 

[Cturtle]

Not all churches do this.

Then they are cheating their members out of a lot. And not teaching their congregation correctly. In fact I know a lady who is having financial issues because her pastor told her she doesn't need to tithe, because she doesn't have enough or cant afford it. The Lord just last week spoke to her heart... and told her its time to be tithing, for its the only thing that will fix her situation.

People cannot afford to not tithe. To honor God for blessing them with what they have in the first place. We cannot do this on our own without Him. It doesn't work.

 

[Siloam]

Did he go to another church?

No . I believe He wants to go back, but he is going through some health problems (and thus could use the support of his congregation), All together, there are many issues involved here. Simple assumptions can be wildly wrong.

In this case, it was a situation being brought up in the congregation that was 'old news' and everyone already knew about.

His church family used his personal family as an object lesson. I wasn't there, but heard about it. My friend doesn't talk much about it. My friend felt that his family was being attacked. I believe that it is more concern for his son (and his son's standing as a christian) than for himself. This is a father supporting his son. It is also a grandfather supporting his grandsons who are being brought up in his home.

My friend is not trying to justify the actions that led to their births, but these young men are in their mid teens. The son, who is trying to be a father should be given the benefit of a little forgiving forgetfulness. The Pastor's point could have been made without using this particular illustration.

 

[Lanolin]

No . I believe He wants to go back, but he is going through some health problems (and thus could use the support of his congregation), All together, there are many issues involved here. Simple assumptions can be wildly wrong.

In this case, it was a situation being brought up in the congregation that was 'old news' and everyone already knew about.

His church family used his personal family as an object lesson. I wasn't there, but heard about it. My friend doesn't talk much about it. My friend felt that his family was being attacked. I believe that it is more concern for his son (and his son's standing as a christian) than for himself. This is a father supporting his son. It is also a grandfather supporting his grandsons who are being brought up in his home.

My friend is not trying to justify the actions that led to their births, but these young men are in their mid teens. The son, who is trying to be a father should be given the benefit of a little forgiving forgetfulness. The Pastor's point could have been made without using this particular illustration.

Yea its not fun to be used as a bad example in church sermons they should have a more grace. GOd doesnt keep records of wrongs when Hes forgiven them. I mean differnt story if you give your testimony and show how God turned a sinful situation around.

Did the pastor apologize to the deacon?

 

[Lanolin]

Pastor's children can be notoriously rebellious. Maybe he could have used an example from his own life before pointing the finger.
My pastor was a gambler before he converted. Hes shared that, he would gamble instead of using the money to provide for his family, but God turned that around!

The pastor at the other church I went to first, this was before I started attending, has four children and his grandson was born outside of marriage, the dad left so now hes looking after him. The daughter doesnt attend that church as shes grown up, i dont know much about it, but its not like people dont know what happened.

Ive found that children whos parents didnt marry or got married after they were born are just honest about their birth they dont lie or cover up about it. I dont think people treat them any differently, if they come to the Lord they get adopted anyway by our Father so they arent illegitimate anymore.

 

[Lanolin]

David, well look really bad example...had an affair, which led to murder, and his sons were rebellious. But hes known as a man after Gods own heart.
Moses, killed an egyptian...but led the israelites to the brink of the promised land.
PAul...persecuted christians...but became the greatest missionary and reached the gentiles for Christ.
Rahab, a prostitute...but her whole household was saved by her act of faith.

God turns lives around.

 

[Siloam]

Did the pastor apologize to the deacon?

I don't know.

 

[Major]

Hi, bob in faith, remember me? I just want you to know that this surely speaks to me about certain challenges I am facing lately especially in the area of doing the prayer work for "church planting." All of it is good, however. I see you are much more involved here than when I was a frequent poster. But you also encourage others to get involved and support live church..that is not online. Real folks..face to face. And that is what I am now doing. My husband died almost a year ago so it is a gradual reentry into more activities with others at the church, bible studies, groups, prayer ministry, etc. Yet, I am called to pray here at home a lot more now that I am no longer a 24/7 caregiver. God is good to use us in various ways. Keep up the encouragement here. You are an inspiration. Bless you, your family, and your church family. As ever, your friend, sandpiper (Jo)

May the Lord bless and encourage my sister and my see have only the peace that comes from a heavenly Father in times like these.
I pray the you will fill her with the compassion and grace that she needs to fulfill the things you have called her to do.
Help her to be an inspiration in the reality of life in her church and her life, in Jesus name, Amen!

 

[Major]

David, well look really bad example...had an affair, which led to murder, and his sons were rebellious. But hes known as a man after Gods own heart.
Moses, killed an egyptian...but led the israelites to the brink of the promised land.
PAul...persecuted christians...but became the greatest missionary and reached the gentiles for Christ.
Rahab, a prostitute...but her whole household was saved by her act of faith.

God turns lives around.

THat is because God uses the weak to accomplish His best.

 

[Major]

Yea I dont know why people are debating. People dont go for the music its the Word, but if the music is overpowering the Word and you cannot hear the Word or participate then its a waste of time, because you might as well go to a gig performance or watch it on tv.

I think its just noticeable that many people are put off by music that is too loud, or prima donna musicians on the worship team. If they are not in the spirit all they are doing is performing. The couple that left in disgrace one of the churches I attended where prominent on the worship team, one was an opera singer and the other a guitarist. It wasnt because people didnt like their music, it was actually because they commited adultery. It was a case of 'people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is but rules taught by men'

Anointed music does not require you to know anything beforehand about how to sing or to play. GOd will teach you. You can be the most rock star drummer or bass guitarist in the world, but if you dont have the spirit you are just performing. Its just a show.

IMO, worship services should be focused on the Lord Jesus Christ and not a music concert. HE must be the focus of any and all music and all worship as HE is the blazing center of reality or else it is just a concert of men for men.

 

[Major]

I have been following this thread and am a little perplexed, or maybe saddened.

Music is an important part of worship. It reaches the soul in ways that can compliment the other aspects of worship.

But to debate whether one style of music is better misses the point.

For myself, I am more comfortable with a traditional organ & old time hymns that remind me of the first church I attended after accepting Christ, and even farther back.

But that is me. And, the most important point of being part of a congregation is not primarily my comfort. It is the question of whether I can be nourished there, and whether I can help nourish those around.

A couple of miles from my home there is a little Primitive Baptist Church.
For those who may not know, the Primitive Baptist Church is a doctrinal y conservative denomination marked by informally trained leadership (no theological scholars and seminaries), Families worship together. Training in Christianity is the the families responsibility (no Sunday school). Foot washing as a sacrament to teach humility and service to others.
They also do not have instrumental accompaniment to their singing. Just voices.

There are many other churches near-by. There are many approaches to the 'kind' of service presented, most obviously but not exclusively in music. Some with a strongly folk-rock approach. Some following one of the more traditional approaches.

A church where I was blessed before I moved to my current home (that I am in the process of selling) held a contemporary service early followed by a traditional service. While one set was in the sanctuary at service, the other was having Sunday school. There was about 45 minutes between the end of the early service and the start of the later service where coffee and donuts were available, and both sets mingled and fellow shipped together.

Now there are other churches I have visited where I felt that the music was great, but the time spent was pointless.

If the point of the selection of music style (and preaching style for that matter) is to minister to some segment of the people by getting them to attend, that is fine, but if once people are in the pews they are not given something of Christ to take away that they did not have when they came in, what is the point?

This is getting a little long. I'll have more to say regarding the fall of church attendance apart from the choice of music styles later (if I can get my self disciplined).

Agreed!

 

[Lanolin]

I don't know.

It seems like its on him to apologize. I havent heard of a pastor deliberately saying something to chase away or hurt their flock but it can happen pastors can be in the wrong. Maybe you be the one to tell him in private? Is the deacon not able to go back, if he didnt listen then go with him and the deacon and say what you said was uncalled for. But we forgive you.

(Most people dont say things to be deliberately mean but they may not at first realise that it can hurt others)

Besides isnt everyone falling short of Gods glory the pastor may not be the most successful father either. Even Billy Graham said he regretted not spending enough time with his sons when they were growing up because he was busy evangelizing. But see God can make up for our shortcomings if we confess them and ask for forgiveness.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

It seems like its on him to apologize. I havent heard of a pastor deliberately saying something to chase away or hurt their flock but it can happen pastors can be in the wrong. Maybe you be the one to tell him in private? Is the deacon not able to go back, if he didnt listen then go with him and the deacon and say what you said was uncalled for. But we forgive you.

(Most people dont say things to be deliberately mean but they may not at first realise that it can hurt others)

Besides isnt everyone falling short of Gods glory the pastor may not be the most successful father either. Even Billy Graham said he regretted not spending enough time with his sons when they were growing up because he was busy evangelizing. But see God can make up for our shortcomings if we confess them and ask for forgiveness.

God said to Forgive......He never said we must get an apology.
If an apology is in order then God Thee Father will see to it.

 

[Siloam]

It seems like its on him to apologize. I havent heard of a pastor deliberately saying something to chase away or hurt their flock but it can happen pastors can be in the wrong. Maybe you be the one to tell him in private? Is the deacon not able to go back, if he didnt listen then go with him and the deacon and say what you said was uncalled for. But we forgive you.

(Most people dont say things to be deliberately mean but they may not at first realise that it can hurt others)

Besides isnt everyone falling short of Gods glory the pastor may not be the most successful father either. Even Billy Graham said he regretted not spending enough time with his sons when they were growing up because he was busy evangelizing. But see God can make up for our shortcomings if we confess them and ask for forgiveness.

As I indicated, I wasn't there. I heard accounts from several who were. I feel no need to make judgements, particularly when I have only second hand accounts from one side.

I do try to be a sympathetic ear should my friend wish to talk, but there again I would be less trying to be a judge than a sounding board for my friend to work through _his_ view.

At any rate, my thoughts are hardly relevant except as I said as a friendly listener.

 

[Lanolin]

Well just encourage him to return to fellowship if its all water under the bridge.
When you know you done wrong, you apologize, its just basic courtesy. Then you dont do it again. If the pastor kept doing this i.e making people feel belittled in his sermons then he wont have many people left in his congregation.

When jesus was making a point in his teachings he would say 'a certain man' he wouldnt name that person and shame them.