Why Christians are Leaving Church

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#81
A++ = very good
A minus = good but have some faults
both can be applicable to a church or member: both are human beings by the
OK but by what standards would you be judging the church? Especially when God placed you there?

It comes down to obedience unto the Lord.
Or
Nit picking the church by what you think.
For me and my house......we choose to serve the Lord so we stay planted where He puts us because we are smart enough to know - God knows best and there is always Good Things Attached to obedience unto Him.

Stop looking for perfection according to what you think and start accepting what God wants.

NOTE......The word YOU is used in general for anyone who reads this.
Blessings
 
Amens/Likes: Cturtle
#83
You are not grasping this.
The Pastor spends time with God and finds out what God wants said and then devotes his time with God on putting together what he will teach. He stays on that topic until the Lord changes it.

Any excuse to leave is simply saying I know better then the Lord on what should be said.
Blessings
A new pastor was called to the 3rd Baptist Church in Anytown USA. He preached his 1st sermon and everyone was blessed and excited.

He preached the next Sunday and it sounded a lot like the 1st Sunday.

The 3rd Sunday came and went and the deacons called him and asked him why he was preaching the same sermon e very Sunday.
He said...….I am going to preach the same sermon every Sunday until we get to doing what it says to do.
 
#84
OK but by what standards would you be judging the church? Especially when God placed you there?

It comes down to obedience unto the Lord.
Or
Nit picking the church by what you think.
For me and my house......we choose to serve the Lord so we stay planted where He puts us because we are smart enough to know - God knows best and there is always Good Things Attached to obedience unto Him.

Stop looking for perfection according to what you think and start accepting what God wants.

NOTE......The word YOU is used in general for anyone who reads this.
Blessings
The day we find the perfect church, it becomes imperfect the moment we join it.
- C.H. Spurgeon
 
#85
I have been looking for an assembly for years now, and I have yet to find one.
Unbiblical liturgy and doctrine aside, the current trend of obsessively ridiculous volume (regardless of worship or music style) is everywhere here. Even churches in small buildings with small assemblies crank up the volume (often to the point of window rattling).
I cannot physically tolerate it. When I try, I am unable to concentrate and inevitably leave with a headache.
Before anyone starts hollering about this being simple preference, please understand that these are testable sound levels that would lead to OSHA fines if these assemblies had more employees. If your band/choir/ministers have to where hearing protection/filters to do their 'job' then its too loud for everyone else.
I hear you. I dont understand the high tech 'sound systems' many churches have these days and often they have terrible distortion and feedback from the mics. There are some that have drumkits behind perspex walls, and the drummer wears headphones while they are drumming. If these are centre stage in a church gathering, I feel like Ive walked into a rock concert instead of a church. I have no idea why this is so and not just a few churches have them, many do.

We are meant to hear the Word of God, yes, because faith comes by hearing, but its being spoken not drummed out.
 
Amens/Likes: Major

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#86
We are meant to hear the Word of God, yes, because faith comes by hearing, but its being spoken not drummed out.
There is a time for everything and everything has order. Worship and music work well together. The drum cage is a "good thing" , it prevents broken sticks from getting out. It happens and you really just don't know when.

Why judge how a worship team looks or operates?

If one gets offended from things in the church then they won't even "hear" a message even if it was a direct answer from God unto them.

Bottom Line - People need to crucify self and trust God is working well within.
Blessings
 
Amens/Likes: Cturtle
#87
If the pastor is spending time with the Lord it will show in their character and the way they look after their flock. For those in church that God has placed them in, we need to accept and pray for our pastor the same as the pastor oversees and looks after us.

I dont know if there is a limit to how many sheep a pastor can handle at one time, but it may be when you are a new believer you need to be in a smaller church or group. If the pastor does not even know your name, then, it might be that fellowship is not the one for you. But you need to seek God on the matter. Its ok to visit a church and get a feel for it and somtimes God lets us have a taste of the wider community but He is always developing you and leading you where He can see you. Sheep without a shepherd who are scattered here and there are lost.

GOd gave us pastors to bring us all together. I know some of us may not like being called sheep and being herded, but reality is we DO function better in groups together than apart. We are no goats that happily go their own way and get into trouble and need to be tied up. The sheep have freedom to roam as long as they are being looked after. Have you ever been to the countryside and seen how vast a sheep paddock can be? Sheep have incredible freedom.
 
#88
There is a time for everything and everything has order. Worship and music work well together. The drum cage is a "good thing" , it prevents broken sticks from getting out. It happens and you really just don't know when.

Why judge how a worship team looks or operates?

If one gets offended from things in the church then they won't even "hear" a message even if it was a direct answer from God unto them.

Bottom Line - People need to crucify self and trust God is working well within.
Blessings
? If that is what its for, why the earmuffs/headphones. Why isnt there a cage for everyone else. Seems silly to me. Im not offended though, stop taking what people are saying as offenses.

Not everyone has perfect hearing like you, actually nobody is exactly the same as you.
 
Amens/Likes: Major
#89
Why would a drummer be throwing drumsticks, makes no sense. Is that a worship thing to throw your drumsticks?
I dont understand, but then you need to know there are many things people do not understand that if you KNOW why then please take the time to gently explain.

In the church I go to there is a drumkit but no cage and weve never been hit by a drumstick. Never!
 

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#90
? If that is what its for, why the earmuffs/headphones. Why isnt there a cage for everyone else. Seems silly to me. Im not offended though, stop taking what people are saying as offenses.

Not everyone has perfect hearing like you, actually nobody is exactly the same as you.
First off please calm down!!
Headphones allows a drummer to hear things mixed correctly.

If any person has a gripe, a complaint or irritated or something against another......it comes from being offended.

Because no one else is swinging pieces of wood around.
 
#92
Staying within the realm of why Christians are leaving the church;

Hello, FC Jim, Before and after our church first planted, one of the issues we addressed immediately was the carnal instead of the Spirit. My point is our church leaders needed to understand the difference between truly being in the Spirit. Its not a one time shot, then we're on our way. The church should always be in prayer before planting and during the ongoing church ministry.

A church in the spirit always seeks what God's direction is, instead of imulating what the church is doing down the street or what other churches are doing. There are too many preachers and teachers just "playing church and winging it."

Major, its incredible why so many believers are turned off from going to church. If one's doctrine justifies against worshiping in a corporate church setting because of one, ok, two bad experiences, then we strongly encourage everyone to seek HARD with the Lord. A lone Christian will not grow depending only on social media because at the end of the fellowship you cannot shake their hand, go out for a cup of coffee, pray together, cry and laugh together, attend a funeral or serve at an outreach community together, the opportunities to serve "live people" is unlimited with the Lord.

eric m williams, the music ministry is just as much an important part of the church and shouldn't depend on the idealistic praise band, sound system / microphones/ electrical without first asking God what He says. The first three years God used 4 singers and a karaoke and that was it! Later we built the ministry by adding a pianist, two guitarists and a bassist without microphones. Later Our media ministry was very careful in selecting the compact, sound system to handle up to 6 microphones. In other words, music ministers need be in prayer constantly so they learn how to implement the discipline of a praise team or choir. Perhaps there isn't a need for microphones or a drum set. Perhaps there is. But with that the ministry must be knowledgable with balance, setting up correctly. Also, the music ministry is one of the toughest ministries in church because we're serving with different personalilities week to week, year to year.

In my job description the church leaders and board allow me my space time for visitations, ministering, baptisms, preparing the sermon, order of service, etc...and personal time to refresh with my wife. I shouldn't have to "control" everything that goes on. As Major was saying delegation is important. Other leaders and servants have the opportunity to serve with responsibility. This enables God to grow them for His glory.

Our church will celebrate 7 years this September and I feel very strong we have been blessed, structurely. I was blessed to the point of tears when I learned that the core of our church family have been with us serving and growing, much of them for 5 - 7 years. I am truly thankful.

Of course we are far from perfect and have much work to do, but with a structured church we are prepared to face the challenges, sin and sufferings as well as success (many believers cannot handle success) in people, saved and the unreached.

God bless you all and your families.
Hi, bob in faith, remember me? I just want you to know that this surely speaks to me about certain challenges I am facing lately especially in the area of doing the prayer work for "church planting." All of it is good, however. I see you are much more involved here than when I was a frequent poster. But you also encourage others to get involved and support live church..that is not online. Real folks..face to face. And that is what I am now doing. My husband died almost a year ago so it is a gradual reentry into more activities with others at the church, bible studies, groups, prayer ministry, etc. Yet, I am called to pray here at home a lot more now that I am no longer a 24/7 caregiver. God is good to use us in various ways. Keep up the encouragement here. You are an inspiration. Bless you, your family, and your church family. As ever, your friend, sandpiper (Jo)
 
#93
Why would a drummer be throwing drumsticks, makes no sense. Is that a worship thing to throw your drumsticks?
I dont understand, but then you need to know there are many things people do not understand that if you KNOW why then please take the time to gently explain.

In the church I go to there is a drumkit but no cage and weve never been hit by a drumstick. Never!
Drums being played by an inexperienced drummer can often be very loud and overpower the other instruments. Hence the Plexiglas. Headphone may be for protecting the drummers ears being boxed in the glass or so drummer can hear the other instruments so as to play together.
 
Amens/Likes: Major
#94
Drums being played by an inexperienced drummer can often be very loud and overpower the other instruments. Hence the Plexiglas. Headphone may be for protecting the drummers ears being boxed in the glass or so drummer can hear the other instruments so as to play together.
Thanks for explaining, I dont really know if FCJ s right or you are or both.

I just know that in one church I attend, theres a piano thats never gets used in the worship service, they use an electric keyboard instead. And theres a drumkit but no plexiglass. nobody throws any sticks.

Another one I attend does have drummer and no plexiglass, but they also have bongo drums where the drummer just uses their hands.

I just thought it was a bit strange when I saw it in some other churches I had visited and wondered what it was for. I thought it might have something to do with noise, I didnt think it was a safety thing.

I attended a church on saturday for a seminar and it was one of those really old ones with wooden pews, but they had cushions. Anyway it also had stained glass windows and an organ. The organ was huge and built right into the wall. I havent heard a real church organ before, but just a portable one a friend played at a funeral home.


But I suppose different churches just have different combinations of musical instruments used in worship. I have yet to hear one thats got a full orchestra and harps, but maybe there is...? Sorry this isnt anything to do with topic, I dont know how got onto this. Music is one of the blessings of being a christian I suppose and something most all churches do, take time to worship together and praise God. Many people arent trained musicians. Some dont know how to read music, I would say in general most people dont! Even I have trouble reading music. But somehow we can all raise our voices together and sing. And if we cant sing we can hum or raise our hands.

I love singing, but wonder if there are people that dont like singing or think they cant, so when worship and praise songs are on at church are they the people who just listen instead. Ive always joined in but it has occured to me that maybe there are people that dont. Just because the worship leader tells everyone to stand doesnt mean everyone is singing I suppose.

I have a friend, bless her, she doesnt attend the same church as me anymore, but I was sitting next to her at a christians ladies retreat and we had a time of worship. But the thing is when she opened her mouth to sing, I dont know, it was really off putting because it was like she was tone deaf. Like she couldnt get the notes or key or whatever that the song was in. I had to physically move away because she would sing so out of key that it was putting me off, it was kind of embarassing. But im sure nobody else noticed but me but I didnt say anything. I mean what could I say? She had the words but so out of tune. It wasnt just one song either. I dont know, she loves the Lord I suppose thats all that counts and is gifted in other areas.
 
#96
I have been following this thread and am a little perplexed, or maybe saddened.

Music is an important part of worship. It reaches the soul in ways that can compliment the other aspects of worship.

But to debate whether one style of music is better misses the point.

For myself, I am more comfortable with a traditional organ & old time hymns that remind me of the first church I attended after accepting Christ, and even farther back.

But that is me. And, the most important point of being part of a congregation is not primarily my comfort. It is the question of whether I can be nourished there, and whether I can help nourish those around.

A couple of miles from my home there is a little Primitive Baptist Church.
For those who may not know, the Primitive Baptist Church is a doctrinal y conservative denomination marked by informally trained leadership (no theological scholars and seminaries), Families worship together. Training in Christianity is the the families responsibility (no Sunday school). Foot washing as a sacrament to teach humility and service to others.
They also do not have instrumental accompaniment to their singing. Just voices.

There are many other churches near-by. There are many approaches to the 'kind' of service presented, most obviously but not exclusively in music. Some with a strongly folk-rock approach. Some following one of the more traditional approaches.

A church where I was blessed before I moved to my current home (that I am in the process of selling) held a contemporary service early followed by a traditional service. While one set was in the sanctuary at service, the other was having Sunday school. There was about 45 minutes between the end of the early service and the start of the later service where coffee and donuts were available, and both sets mingled and fellow shipped together.

Now there are other churches I have visited where I felt that the music was great, but the time spent was pointless.

If the point of the selection of music style (and preaching style for that matter) is to minister to some segment of the people by getting them to attend, that is fine, but if once people are in the pews they are not given something of Christ to take away that they did not have when they came in, what is the point?

This is getting a little long. I'll have more to say regarding the fall of church attendance apart from the choice of music styles later (if I can get my self disciplined).
 
#97
Yea I dont know why people are debating. People dont go for the music its the Word, but if the music is overpowering the Word and you cannot hear the Word or participate then its a waste of time, because you might as well go to a gig performance or watch it on tv.

I think its just noticeable that many people are put off by music that is too loud, or prima donna musicians on the worship team. If they are not in the spirit all they are doing is performing. The couple that left in disgrace one of the churches I attended where prominent on the worship team, one was an opera singer and the other a guitarist. It wasnt because people didnt like their music, it was actually because they commited adultery. It was a case of 'people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is but rules taught by men'

Anointed music does not require you to know anything beforehand about how to sing or to play. GOd will teach you. You can be the most rock star drummer or bass guitarist in the world, but if you dont have the spirit you are just performing. Its just a show.
 
Amens/Likes: Major and Big Moose
#98
I apologize, but I don't have time to work this up into a good post, but I will post a list of points I wanted to address -- maybe it will spark some insights in others:

Looking from the perspective of people:

Busy lives

Greater Mobility

Decline in the recognition of universal moral truths

Less willingness to listen to or recognize authority (even God's)

"I have a right to my own opinion" has become "My opinion is just as correct as yours so don't tell me what to believe".


Looking from the perspective of the church:

Are churches challenging us to commit daily?

Are churches supporting our commitment?

God deals with us as individuals. Are numbers an adequate means of evaluating this?
 
Amens/Likes: Big Moose
#99
For me its of belief and whether you act on that belief. Peter declared Jesus is the son of God, He is the Christ,and Jesus said on this rock I will build my church.

Off topic...should have googled it first, but wikipedia tells me this is what a drum screen is for. Doesnt say anything about it being a barrier to prevent people being hurt by drummers chucking drum sticks!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_screen