Why Christians are Leaving Church

[JohnC]

How do you conclusively know that actual "Christians" are leaving "The Church" as opposed to non-christians who simply attended because of tradition or social norm have quit now that they are not forced to go?

 

[bobinfaith]

Hey friends, I made this video for my fellowship about reasons why people leave church, and I'd love to hear your thoughts about what I mention in the video.

I'd love to hear anything insights from your own experience and your own wisdom

Hello love said walk;

Please join us. Your thread received a huge reply of posts and would love to hear your followup, brother. Thank you!

How do you conclusively know that actual "Christians" are leaving "The Church" as opposed to non-christians who simply attended because of tradition or social norm have quit now that they are not forced to go?

Hello JohnC;

Are you addressing your question to the author of this thread? Otherwise, please scroll through the last two pages and read the followship of everyone else's posts. I will admit everyone's participation has been an eye opener for all of us.

God bless you, brother JohnC, and your family.

 

[Lanolin]

Am finding this discussion interesting because its a good question although at first glance you wonder is that even possible, and then you have to ask well what do you mean by christian and what do you mean by church?

Certainly in the case of sexual immorality or financial fraud there are very good reasons for the offender to leave, for the personal safety of the rest of the flock. You dont want predators/wolves in the church.

 

[love said walk]

Hello love said walk;

Please join us. Your thread received a huge reply of posts and would love to hear your followup, brother. Thank you!



Hello JohnC;

Are you addressing your question to the author of this thread? Otherwise, please scroll through the last two pages and read the followship of everyone else's posts. I will admit everyone's participation has been an eye opener for all of us.

God bless you, brother JohnC, and your family.

bobinfaith please excuse my late response, I have just started a new job where I have to wake up at 4am arrive home at 5pm and go to bed at 8pm, so with only 3 hours of non work/commute hours a day I have been struggling to find my routine, slowly getting there
the participation in this group is so awesome, this is such a great group

 

[love said walk]

Have watched the video.
I havent heard of that situation happen before that sounds extreme and not handled the way Jesus would have handled it. Jesus told the women caught in adultery that he didnt condemn her and to sin no more, but before he did that he wrote some words on the ground. Dont know what he wrote but it affected all the people that were accusing this woman, and also we dont know about the man she was being adulterous with either.

this woman did actually repent and was forgiven much mostly because Jesus showed kindness which leads to repentance. He could have stoned her, but then all the people that were accusing her were they not without sin too.

The way we deal with sexual offences nowadays is in the courtroom usually in divorce proceedings, not stoning as it happened in the bible. Fornication though was a bit different because it didnt involve a married couple. For that was quite common in the early church amongst gentiles as a way of life that one of the requirements actually was stated that new believers abstain from fornication. Even flee from fornication if tempted.

If we want to help believers get right with God its enough that he convicts us that fornication is wrong and gives us the strength to flee or say no to it. I dont know all the ins and outs of the situation as presented in the video but I wonder if it was a case of adultery or fornication, and if so we ought to pray and ask God for widsom when dealing with those caught in this sin.
We also must remember that Jesus said those that looked at a woman not their wife with lust in their heart was just as guilty of adultery as being caught in the act. So He knows it begins with our hearts,and if our heart is not clean we have no right to judge another person if we are guilty of the same offence.

When David was comitting adultery with Bathsheba and tried to hide it, Nathan lovingly convicted him I supose you could say, and the psalm David wrote showed us that he asked God for a new heart when he repented.

I think the issue was the way the church dealt with the sin, the church was sued for revealing her privae information in public and the church lost over 900,000 dollars in legal fees and lost 40% of it's congregation...the video was about how we deal with sinners...pointing them to christ, instead of just pointing the finger at them, I hope that made things clearer Lanolin

 

[love said walk]

I agree on what you mentioned in the video and I would say it is a good one that it delivered the message: Love is the core when reminding one another

I google the case, interesting case. Am not a lawyer, but I found it more objective or factual on this site: https://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/1989/10494.html

I think the point of the case is knowing when to stop and let God and just pray for the betterment of a brother or a sister.

Question now is what is those actions that we need to know when to stop:

Forgiving one another?: I see no verses advising us to stop.
Spreading the gospel?: I see verses advising to “shake off the dust from your feet”

On the case mentioned: when to stop the disciplinary procedures (or is it a right or legal word to use*) when one already gave an intention to leave the congregation? I see the latter verses seems to say to stop…

*excerpt from the site mentioned: "Parishioner became subject to the disciplinary procedure set forth in Matthew 18:13-17.

The related verse mentioned in the case: for study/comments: I see the latter verses seems to say to stop…

MT 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
MT 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
MT 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
MT 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
MT 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

thank you for your response friend, you've raised some good points that I'll need to think about

what you said about actions needed has definitely stirred me

 

[love said walk]

Hello love said walk;

You did a good job articulating your message of including love and gentleness to a brother or sister when pointing out their fault. Do you speak often to groups of people in ministry? I do remember the story about the woman with 4 children and the Oklahoma church in 1980 but I would like to stick with the verb of your thread.

It is sad when a Christian leaves the church but I agree what was said in this thread, many Christians leave the church only to seek another church, for various reasons. That is a big difference from leaving the church altogether and proclaiming apostacy. If a person practiced Christianity for a little while and didn't take salvation seriously, then they were not really truthful about receiving Christ in the first place.

When people leave the church setting for a small home church, it should be to glorify God. But if its to withdraw from working out people problems, I do understand some Christian relationships just cannot work it out. It happens, just like the Christians who leave the church altogether for the sole reason that they just don't want a relationship with Jesus.

But the majority of Christians that want to bond in the fellowship, need to realize that Christians are about being in people relationships. Why? So we can all grow in the body and relationship with Christ. Thats what we do.

Lets share about the positive side of the Christian church and community. We are seeing incredible growth of new believers in the Koreas, China, India, the Bible Belt in America, while the 3rd wave or Pentecostal Church is growing in the Central and South Americas and Africa.

At the church I serve, our missions ministry provides preliminary reports annually, and the results in 2018 will be very encouraging. People are coming to Christ Jesus!

For example, in a 10 year comparison, in 2008 preliminary reports from World Religion, World Christian Encyclopedia, Operation World and the Pew Research Group all consistently reported Christians being the largest religion at 2.2 billion or 33% and in 2017 2.1 billion or 32%. Muslims were second at 1.387 billion or 21.09% and in 2017 1.3 billion or 19.60%.

In your video, Why Christians Are Leaving The Church is directed at the people problems we're having in the church, Sal, then I concur with you, brother.

A Spiritually mature Christian will discern that 9 times out of 10 the trials in the church are people problems, and 9 times out of 10 the people problems are the main reason people leave the church. Only to find another Christian church with new people.

A mature Christian is not going to leave the church because the building has a leak, or the church can't afford to throw a Christmas party, or the new pew Bibles are paperbook instead of hardcover, or the cookies at the bake sale were oreos instead of vanilla wafers. We can bring resolve to these issues in the church.

God sees everything ongoing in His churches on all four corners of the earth. How dare any of us claim to know what Jesus himself does not know.


IPastors Shepherds, God has given you a huge responsibility, to solidify the structure of the sheep pen. Jesus chose his Shepherd with a Shepherd's heart, a gentle spirit that feeds his church family the Word of God, he protects them from false doctrine and sinful behaviors, and helps them serve God. The Pastor consults other Pastors. The Pastor studies and must continue to study so he doesn't become limited in his teaching. This benefits the sheep who follow their Shepherds.

God's wrath is on the Pastor who grumbles against his sheep. Pastors, respect the intelligence of the church family. Hear them out but don't grumble behind their backs.

Pastors Shepherds, if you are making mistakes that lead to sin, promiscuity with women members or outside the church, dabauchery when no ones looking, a contentious spirit with the men, mishandling money, this becomes a cancer that will spread amongst the congregation. If you cannot walk away from sin, then don't wait to be caught and voted out. God knows your heart and it is best to step down on your own instead of keeping it a secret from your church family.

Church family, servants, leaders, musicians, and nominal Christians, please, always pray for your Pastor. He already took on huge responsibilities when he accepted the Pastoral Calling. Love and pray for your Pastor because he is going to make mistakes, lots of them and if the mistakes point to Jesus, then the more you need to pray for your Pastor. Uplift him for doing 9 things right but don't condemn him when he does 1 thing wrong. Here's wise counsel, please forgive him.

God's wrath is on the church member who grumbles against his or her Pastor. Who are we to tell God He made a mistake with appointing His Shepherd? Church family, you may not agree with the appointment of your Pastor, but please respect his calling. Speak with him. God already sees all, and if need be will make changes in His time.

Finally, love said walk, I'm not dismissing the woman with the 4 children but these points were about the overall people problems in the church and ways we can help miminize Christians leaving the church. When you present your next message on video, please look at all angles so all sides are presented, brother.

God bless you and your family.

BobinFaith thank you so much foryour respone....

I couldn't agree more with what you said about the people problem

I really loved what you said about pastor shepherds! as someone whose heart is led to ministry you saidit perfectly and I have actually copied and pasted what you wrote and saved it in a document.

another thing, I’m actually dyslexic, and I really appreciate the way you write…it’s so easy to follow and you communicate so clearly and profoundly….so I just want you to know I appreciate it friend

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I’m actually dyslexic

Who is dyslexic?

 

[Lanolin]

I think the issue was the way the church dealt with the sin, the church was sued for revealing her privae information in public and the church lost over 900,000 dollars in legal fees and lost 40% of it's congregation...the video was about how we deal with sinners...pointing them to christ, instead of just pointing the finger at them, I hope that made things clearer Lanolin

Oh ok but that issue was never mentioned in the video.
In the bible it says believers dont sue other believers, so, whoever was doing the suing, was not a believer. But then christians arent meant to divorce each other either and break up families. It happens though, because people disobey God and marry unbelievers.
Read 1 corinthians 6

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Oh ok but that issue was never mentioned in the video.
In the bible it says believers dont sue other believers, so, whoever was doing the suing, was not a believer. But then christians arent meant to divorce each other either and break up families. It happens though, because people disobey God and marry unbelievers.
Read 1 corinthians 6

Scripture says Don't separate what God joined together.
Just because two Christians get married does not mean God joined them together.
Many Christians just choose who they want and not who God has chosen.

Yes God loves us and will honor the marriage but IT WAS NOT HE who joined them together.

Blessings

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

In the bible it says believers dont sue other believers, so, whoever was doing the suing, was not a believer.

We are instructed to love and forgive.
Believers take believers to court all the time and yet they are still saved believers.
Carnal yes but still believers

 

[Lanolin]

Well it still means they disobeyed God, so they must not have been believing Him when they got married, I mean when you are a believer its not just you believe that Jesus died for you and rose from the dead, you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and saviour, so you do what He commands.

Why do people believe in one thing then do the exact opposite, I dont know.

 

[Lanolin]

lets say you marry someone whos a christian then you go and commit adultery, and then sue the church for exposing your sin. Well it doesnt take any brains to figure out that the person who comitted adultery is disobeying God.

 

[Lanolin]

Maybe the person who married the adulterous spouse married them in good faith. May they didnt actually choose to be married but just said yes to a marriage proposal without really thinking or praying it through. Big mistake. But This happens quite a lot. Also, other people might pressure them to get married, but, I think the buck stops with the person who agrees to marry them.

 

[love said walk]

Who is dyslexic?

I am

 

[Lanolin]

There's an old saying, and Am beginning to think its true - marry in haste, repent at leisure.

 

[aha]

thank you for your response friend, you've raised some good points that I'll need to think about

what you said about actions needed has definitely stirred me

Thanks brother, although reading my post again.... i think i need to correct it: I posted: " "I think the point of the case is knowing when to stop and let God and just pray for the betterment of a brother or a sister."

I should have said "One of the point of the case" because as the core message of your video, LOVE should be the primary point of the case: carrying out disciplinary actions should have LOVE as the primary reason.

Just saying : )

 

[aha]

Scripture says Don't separate what God joined together.
Just because two Christians get married does not mean God joined them together (Topic A)
Many Christians just choose who they want and not who God has chosen (Topic B)

Yes God loves us and will honor the marriage but IT WAS NOT HE who joined them together.

Blessings

I agree, it may not who God has chosen (Topic B)

But I disagree on (Topic A) in the light of the concerned bible verse: Matthew 19:6

If another thread will be created on topic of Divorce, I will participate.

Although I agree on the concept of Divorce, although it is not Divine Law but rather a man-made law with Divine Authority.
Love is outside the bound of time and space even separateness.

Matthew 19:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

But I disagree on (Topic A) in the light of the concerned bible verse: Matthew

Think for a moment. If one marries anyone out side of God's choice then God did not join them together.
God will sanctify the marriage because He Loves us and for the children's sake but God still did not join them together....
.they did

 

[aha]

Think for a moment. If one marries anyone out side of God's choice then God did not join them together.
God will sanctify the marriage because He Loves us and for the children's sake but God still did not join them together....
.they did

Yes as mentioned: it will be a another topic: although upon second thought: i think the topic may not be only Divorce but Marriage including having one wife and many wife....


Did Jacob choice is Leah? No. as I understand he likes to marry Rachel.


Who is God’s choice? I don’t know: I can only assume: that it will be where the human lineage of Jesus will be, which is from his first wife: Leah: Judah: Davidic line.

Anyway off-topic : )