Dear GBWY you said “This seems to indicate that God will not always protect believers from the horrors of this world and in fact allows us to be harmed…
Even when humans and sin nature are both removed from the equation, nature is cruel beyond measure. Some creatures inflict terrible suffering on others, and I cannot help but wonder what God was intending when he created those creatures…
I also perceive God's requirement of Jesus' sacrifice to be a bit extreme, and just seems wrong to expect of your beloved Son, when forgiveness can be granted freely anyways.
I see you are under a common misunderstanding. You must hold to a pure Calvinist (double predestination) doctrine (perhaps that’s how you were taught) and the idea that God will in a fickle sense like the Greek gods turn and violate His own word and intent…let me explain.
a) God will not always protect believers from the horrors of this world and in fact allows us to be harmed…
That is true…He made this world to be a place where a creature that had dominion and the ability to make decisions on their own could exist…ONLY such beings would be capable of GENUINE love and/or obedience….robots and preprogrammed puppets whose every behavior and choice irresistibly predetermined does not fit what God says….when He gives mankind the dominion (rulership) over all that is on the earth it is part of God’s very first blessing (I believe it is Genesis 1:28)….man then disregarding God’s word and bowing to the reasoning of Satan (thereby showing who they preferred as lord) loses the deed to the ranch. Through this MAN gives his rightful dominion to another.
Now it was his to give or keep and exercise properly…a truly just and loving God who is faithful to His word will not immediately and always intervene and control the situation because then He becomes once again the grand puppet master...
All the commands of God are in the imperative…this means man can do them, but as John pointed ot “Light has come into the world, but men PREFERRED the darkness…people do not want to listen to God, they see it as a restriction because they want to be (each one) a lord unto themselves (Genesis 3:5) and to decide good and evil for themselves, and do what is right in their own eyes according to the dictates of their appetites (lust of the flesh), their imaginings and stimulated urges (the lust of the eyes) and by whatever strokes their ego (vain pride)…
He did not create them TO do this, but the potential for it had to be there so that when one loved or faithed it would be genuine…true love can only be if the potential for indifference or hate exists…obedience is a moot concept if one cannot also potentially disobey…
b) Some creatures inflict terrible suffering on others, and I cannot help but wonder what God was intending when he created those creatures…
This is entirely a relative perspective. Natural occurrence is not necessarily “evil”, that is a judgment that is relative…when God created (again with possibilities) He made the planet a place that would optimize the existence of life (therefore the possibility for death also had to exist) otherwise “life” is a meaningless concept. Therefore for example He made a world that had oceans which swell and sometimes disrupt, the made platelets that shift and volcanoes that erupt (to dispel pressure and gases which build up), He created gravity (which could be interpreted as evil if someone falls off, is pushed off, or jumps off a cliff) and these things are in place so that life may exist…without them the world would be just another dead rock…the pressures within would have built up eons ago and the world exploded, and without gravity, the atmosphere life requires as well as all creatures would have been thrown off into the vacuum of space…so when a volcano erupts and kills 1000s it is not evil it is natural and they should not have taken up residence near to it…
When God told Adam and Eve they could eat of all the trees of the garden…is not plucking a fruit or pulling up green food to consume a form of death (from the plants perspective)…so this is not the problem it is spiritual rebellion and spiritual death that are the problem…creatures are doing what they do because the see and lust or hunger and seek power and survival…this is the nature of a beast it is not “evil”. Evil comes with intent.
The primary definition of evil is something or someone profoundly immoral and malevolent (having or showing a wish to do evil to others)…only rebellious spirits (rebellious angels and men), and what they do, can rightly be called “evil”!
When a small fish eats the plants and a large fish eats the small and then we catch the big fish and eat it, this is not evil…it is what must take place for the existence of the optimal number of souls to be born and live so that from among them the optimal number of souls will come to salvation (not all will because they insist on being gods unto themselves)…
Now God can and on occasion does intervene (for His purposes which we may or may not always or fully comprehend) but for the most part He does not because this is man’s world (now run by another to whom we delegated our authority) so because God created the place for man to have dominion and is a faithful God who will not violate His own sure word of promise, only a man could take back the dominion (thus God became a son of man that we could one again become the sons of God)
I know this answer is not totally satisfactory but that would take a small book…trust God…it was not His intent to cause this problem but He has devised the solution (it will be epitomized in the New Heavens and the New Earth)…but first as a man (because man was meant to have the dominion) He had to deal with the problem of sin, sickness, and death, which He was not the harbinger of…and so in Christ there is the redemption, restoration, and reconciliation…in time all will be remedied…to say “God should just fix it all in one POOF!” is to judge God because He is keeping His word…
c) I also perceive God's requirement of Jesus' sacrifice to be a bit extreme, and just seems wrong to expect of your beloved Son, when forgiveness can be granted freely anyways.
First off why simply forgive a devil (man or angelic) who He foreknows will NOT repent…are you thinking a blanket forgiveness would make them stop doing evil? Think again…what would end up is that evil intention and actions would have to exist forever in God’s presence (not a possibility that exists)…
No! Sin, sickness, and death (as well as the cause of them) would have to be dealt with and remedied first…so He became a man who not having sinned would be murdered by MEN but not having sinned would NOT be subject to “death” (which is the consequence) and thus death and the grave would not be able to hold Him so that all who would (by grace through faith) be placed IN CHRIST have their sins remised (not merely forgiven but taken away…blotted out) so that when they experience the physical separation of their spirit man from their bodies they will not be subject to the second death (eternal separation from God and His presence)…their old corruptible corrupted bodies will perish and they will receive new incorruptible glorified “bodies” in the time of the resurrection.
So was Jesus crucifixion a heinous act of cruelty? No it was one He willingly wanted to endure for our sakes because of God’s great love for mankind…see what the Bible says…
Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…
Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.
4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.
1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us (while we were still in our sin He loved us, and was not filled with wrath toward us). So not an act of cruelty at all but one of loving self giving to fix the problem of evil…
Yes it is in his love and in his pity that he redeemed us. Did we deserve this love? No! We were children of orge (disobedience)…we were indignant, obstinate, of natural disposition focused on the whims of the flesh and the will of our own minds. So though He died on behalf of all mankind (making the ransom available for all) not all individuals will be saved because most will reject His gift of grace given to restore, redeem, reconcile (the Lord Jesus who loved us so much He willfully laid down His life).
As for the many assumptions you proposed I can address these one at a time if you wish...but there were so many I wonder if there is a difference between what you nay assume and what you know? Your post was very onge and had like 30 points so be patient and I will get to as many as the Mods allow
In His love
brother Paul
