So you were able to repent of your sins without hating them?
Will God and Jesus ever stop loving me? Can someone lose their salvation while on earth?
- Thread starter TimothyHonorGod
- Start date
Sin incorporates all of man's physical senses, which all connects to his brain. Lucifer sinned in his heart before he even attempted through his actions to ascend to the heights of God. I believe Adam, and Eve sinned before actually going through the motions of eating. The outward actions part is just the manifestations of abiding sin.
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God.15
Every precious stone was your covering, the ruby, topaz, and emerald,
the chrysolite, onyx, and jasper the sapphire, turquoise, and beryl;
your settings and mounts were made of gold. On the day you were created they were prepared.
Eze 28:14 I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub;
you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked about amidst fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your behavior from the day you were created,
until sin was discovered in you.
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
1Pe 4:2 so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human passions but for the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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You do understand that God doesn't hold us responsible for every stray and stupidly human thought we have, don't you? If He did, we"d be confessing umpteen times a day! No...we are responsible as His redeemed children to dispatch evil thoughts, and not entertain them so that they become full-blown actions.
I repent of sin because Holy Spirit gave me the conviction that it is sin. Of course, like Him, I hate the sin that disturbs my fellowship with God.
In the same way we are to "meditate" on the Word of God so it "conceives" in our heart, we are not to "meditate" of the things of the flesh so that "sin" conceives on our hearts. Like one minister said, "we can not stop the birds from flying over our heads, but we can stop them from building a nest in our hair"
Sin effects all of man not just a "portion" of his whole being. How many times have we heard people say, "I don't care how a politician lives his personal life, as long as he does his professional right" This is just dumb thinking. If a man has bad judgment in his personal life he will also have bad judgement in his job, because sin effects all of man, not just a certain part. As a Christian, if God says he has given us certain things, and if we do not believe those things that is sin, for what ever is not of faith is sin. That sin effect everything else we think is true. If are wrong in one area, we will also be wrong in other areas. If a man tries to keep the law, and breaks just one part, he is guilty of breaking all of them.
1. Yes, agreed.
2. Yes. I can imagine there not being a blur between mind and heart in the spirit realm.
But think about the sin / thoughts he committed that got him kicked out. Isa 14:12-14 '‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High''. Now, this is an extremity. Surely there was a build up to wanting be...God. Surely there were lessor thoughts before this one. Frustrations. Some rebelliousness. I mean Jesus says this of satan 1 John 3:8 '' the devil has been sinning from the beginning. ''
3. That is my point. Every step toward that tree was rebellion to what God said. But only the actual deed of eating it was considered sinful. We will not be able to eat the fruit of the tree but we will able to think about it. We will be able to say 'no' to passing God the butter, but not 'no' to helping an orphan / thinking a thought of ruling all like God.
We do not lose our free will to rebel. But we will not ever desire a rebellion that will upset God (aka sin). God knows this. If a Christians wants to kill someone they just have to grasp Jesus died for that person = no murder. Likewise a Christian cannot continue in any sin without repentance. But this is not to say a Christian is perfect in spirit. Perfect to God. But not in the sense of '''never without any rebellion''. We are sealed by Jesus. If we mess up in the future (in heaven), Jesus will say....this guy accepted me, we can overlook the indiscretion.
Gal 5:21 and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
With regards to this scripture. We know that it is referring to people continuing in it unrepentant. There is not a single Christian on the planet since the time of Jesus that can pass this. Even worse so if we consider it with Matt 5:28.
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Do you think a guy in adultery needs the Holy Spirit to tell him he is hurting his wife / God?
Do you think a murderer needs God to tell him he is hurting people / God?
How do we draw near to God such that He draws near to us? James 4:8.
Read the James passage
Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.
Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin
and sin when it is finished brings forth deat.
If you can break off the lust before it conceives and brings forth sin, you have not sinned. Adam and Eve did not do that, but they could have.
SO no, a thought entering your mind to sin is not sin. Like CCW said "you can't stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can prevent them from building a nest in your hair"
Thank God for the grace available to be transformed by the RENEWING OF OUR MINDs!
...and the purification and softening of our once stony hearts.
Because these are where the battle is fought.
...and the purification and softening of our once stony hearts.
Because these are where the battle is fought.
Are you saying thoughts are not sin? You are being a bit blurry. Sure thoughts enter our minds that we don't entertain. But the point in question is that Eve did entertain it.
If you believe thoughts are not sin, how do you interpret Matt 5:28? But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
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Do you have a scripture that says the Holy Spirit smacks the unsaved? Scripture tells me that He is simply knocking on the door to their hearts Rev 3:20. Perhaps in the Tribulation, the trumpets can be seen as a smack. But that would not be the Holy Spirit on earth... smacking them.
Christians can get a smack. But it would not be a smack to them. It would be correction and exhortation and they would receive it with open arms because they actually do love Jesus / hate what is evil Rom 12:9.
Now you have not answered my question. How??? do you draw near to God? You seem to think you can be saved without hating what is evil / sin.
It's quite the revelation for a person to come to the realization that he is a wretched sinner bound for eternal punishment, alone, without hope...without Jesus! That, my friend, is quite a smack that wakes a person up, spiritually! Praise God for the Holy Spirit!
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We draw near to God by reading His word, seeking His presence, and by getting on our faces before Him in prayer. The unbeliever simply needs to exercise his God-given faith and choose to believe.
I am not missing anything.
You seem to miss the point. As an unbeliever, a person doesn't even know what sin is, as he has no understanding of himself as a sinner the way God sees him. He has no power to refrain from sinning. But once a person meets the reality of Jesus Christ and what He has done for him, he receives a revelation of who he is before holy God---wretched--and experiences godly sorrow (genuine remorse) for sin and acts in repentance. Admitting one is helpless and hopeless without Jesus, he receives God's blessed forgiveness and complete cleansing of sin by his exercising faith.
So, one cannot know Jesus without despising what he is without him.
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a. Yes, Eve did entertain it. But at any time before she ate the fruit, she could have come to her senses and fled, and would not have died if she did.
b. Looking upon a woman lustfully requires an act of the volition and it is an actual deed. not a mere thought. You are first purposing in your heart to look at her, then you are turning your head to look at her, then you are gazing at her lustingly. Yet the thought of looking at her lustingly entering your mind is not a sin if you reject that thought and look at something else instead.
Anyways, do you think this topic of debate will in any way help our friend Timothy? Just a sincere question...
What sin is, is applicable, yes. But I will admit that keeping the discussion short / sane / civil and scripture based is near impossible with some members.
a & b. You not making sense. You said Eve entertained it. So the guy in Matt 5:28 does more? He could also come to his senses and not do the deed.
I agree that there is a difference betwen thinking it and doing it. It is Matt 5:28 vs Matt 5:32. But most here will say sin is sin and not differentiate between mortal and venial sins.