Why Did God Lie?

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So what it the point? Your not the judge of our faith and if you don't like the faith why come on a forum that it designed to express that faith? Its like going to KFC and complaining about the fact they serve chicken and how not all chicken is good etc..
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I'm not judging you or anybody - but I am pointing out things that do not make sense to me as I'm sure you would.

It is similar to the animal activists at KFC (hate them). But they go with signs saying: "this is wrong".

I'm here thinking, "why are they doing that?" (not all the atheists who have come here I'm sure are like this)

as was the Crusades a counter to 100's of years of abuse of Christians by Islamic s ..
not saying I justify an eye for an eye .. but self defense is hard for a secular to defend against ..
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yes, but that's kind of how it went down though isn't it?

eye for an eye is wrong only until...
 
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ixoye_8 said:
as was the Crusades a counter to 100's of years of abuse of Christians by Islamic s ..
not saying I justify an eye for an eye .. but self defense is hard for a secular to defend against ..
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570 CE Birth of Muhammad.
614 CE The Sassanid Persians led by Khosrau II (Chosroes II) push south through Palestine to the Sinai and Egypt, conquering Jerusalem, butchering 60,000 Christians, selling 35,000 into slavery, and demolishing the Christian shrines but favors Jews and offers opportunity to rebuild the Temple

nice way to start relations by the new religion ???

630 CE Mecca surrenders to Muhammad,
632 CE Death of Muhammad.
638 CE Umar Ibn al-Khattab (second Muslim caliph) captures Jerusalem and builds the first mosque on the site where Solomon had erected the first temple.
(however after Rome destroyed it, then Hadrian built a temple to Jupiter there and Bar Koba tore that down, about 300 ad a Christian Church stood there which they tore down so they could build the Dome of the Rock as well as taking over the other Christian church to make the Asa Mosque)
969 CE The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969 CE Fatimid conquest .. Arabs destroy all synagogues in Jerusalem
1009 CE Fatimid caliph al-Hakim ordered the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcre and forced Christians to abjure their faith
1070 CE to 1080 CE Seljuk Turks conquor Jerusalem and persecute Christian pilmgrims, 25 years the Christians are prevented from worshiping in Jerusalem
1080 CE to 1095 CE 1st Jihad (Egyptians of the Fatimids Empire have recapture Jerusalem)
1095 CE to 1099 CE 1st Crusade (led by Godfrey de Bouillon, Crusaders from England, France, and Germany conquer Jerusalem

for every Crusade, there was another Jihad .. so IF anyone speaks against one only, they are BIASED ..
 
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for every Crusade, there was another Jihad .. so IF anyone speaks against one only, they are BIASED ..
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still, the conflict is because of ideas/beliefs isn't it?

If not their ideas/beliefs maybe they had something else to gain?
 
and IF they were a religion of peace, they would not have killed Christians to begin with and respected our right to pre-existing churches ..
this is WHAT they did ended up looking like ..

1080 CE to 1095 CE 1st Jihad
1095 CE to 1099 CE 1st Crusade
10?? CE to 1147 CE 2nd Jihad
1147 CE to 1149 CE 2nd Crusade
11?? CE to 1187 CE 3rd Jihad
1187 CE to 1192 CE 3rd Crusade
1192 CE Richard the Lion-Hearted and Saladin sign a 5 year truce ending the Third Crusade and giving Christians the right to make pilgrimages to Jerusalem
1193 CE Saladin dies
119? CE to 119? CE 4th Jihad
1202 CE to 1204 CE 4th Crusade
120? CE to 12?? CE 5th Jihad
1217 CE to 1221 CE 5th Crusade
122? CE to 122? CE 6th Jihad
1228 CE to 1229 CE 6th Crusade
1229 A.D. The two succeeding monarchs, Sultan al-Kamil and Frederick II of Germany, briefly revert the Holy City to Christian rule. Warfare again sweeps the city and Jerusalem is again recaptured by the Arabs. Jerusalem would not again be governed by Christians for nearly seven centuries
123? CE to 1244 CE Mongolian Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked
1248 CE to 1254 CE 7th Crusade
1250 CE Mamelukes conquor the Ayyubid caliphs in Cairo, seize power in Egypt, and turn Palestine into an Egyptian province, beginning a 267 year reign of Egyptians, during which 47 sovereigns briefly sit upon the throne
1260 CE Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut in Palestine
1267 CE Mamelukes conquer and pillage Jerusalem then rebuild walls of the city
1270 CE to 1271 CE 8th Crusade (failed)
1271 CE to 1272 CE 9th Crusade
12?? CE to 1291 CE 9th Jihad
1299-1303 CE Mongolian Mongol invasion
1400 A.D. The city is sacked by Mongols
1453 A.D. Muhammad II, a sultan of the Ottoman Turks, successfully besieges the city of Constantinople.
1516 AD Ottoman Turkish conquer Palestine
 
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goggles said:
still, the conflict is because of ideas/beliefs isn't it?

If not their ideas/beliefs maybe they had something else to gain?
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So what is politics? its ideas and beliefs. What is communism etc... so are we to have a world where no one is allowed to believe anything but what certain folks decide is acceptable?
 
I fail to see what the mongols have to do with it, they couldn't have cared less for religion.

eye for an eye is wrong remember?

So what is politics? its ideas and beliefs. What is communism etc... so are we to have a world where no one is allowed to believe anything but what certain folks decide is acceptable?
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hell no. but there is a right to question.

"so are we to have a world where no one is allowed to believe anything but what certain folks decide is acceptable?"

that is precisely what we don't want.
 
"heck" no...:D But some of you folks try to allow your questions take you past common sense and reality, in your attempt to make a point against faith you leave all rational thought!
 
You are free to think/belief whatever you want but you shouldn't feel offended when they come under close scrutiny. Why should you?

When someone like workmx questions your beliefs (and starts asking increasingly ridiculous questions) he is trying to work out how you rationalize the existence of a higher being (there being no proof of Gods existence. Remember it is an act of faith to believe in god, no matter how much it seems to you and almost everyone on this forum as simple fact).

The "Holy Spirit" is not something that cannot be quantified. It's either you have it (whatever it is, it seems to me a subjective opinion) or you don't.

Or maybe he is just trolling you.

I said so in another post I made: bad ideas are ridiculed/attacked all the time.

Organised religion, for many agnostics/atheists is a bad idea. But if you feel your way is true, nobody is stopping you. Or at least, I'm not.
 
goggles said:
You are free to think/belief whatever you want but you shouldn't feel offended when they come under close scrutiny. Why should you?

When someone like workmx questions your beliefs (and starts asking increasingly ridiculous questions) he is trying to work out how you rationalize the existence of a higher being (there being no proof of Gods existence. Remember it is an act of faith to believe in god, no matter how much it seems to you and almost everyone on this forum as simple fact).

The "Holy Spirit" is not something that cannot be quantified. It's either you have it (whatever it is, it seems to me a subjective opinion) or you don't.

Or maybe he is just trolling you.

I said so in another post I made: bad ideas are ridiculed/attacked all the time.

Organised religion, for many agnostics/atheists is a bad idea. But if you feel your way is true, nobody is stopping you. Or at least, I'm not.
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First place this is a Christian forum that promotes itself as a place that believers can get away from the ridicule of the world. 2nd you are not the judge nor do I submit that you have any right to question me or any other member of this forum if they don't want or ask for your opinion. So that leaves you in trying to be a judge of others that don't accept you have any right to judge... thus we have the conflict where we must basically tell you that if want to know about our faith..come humbly and ask in an honest way and if we choose to share our faith and beliefs with you? we will do so...But you have no "rights" or authority to judge!
 
I still do not see how I am judging you but fine, i'll try and bring it down a notch since you are right about this being a christian forum.

How can we ask in a more honest/humble way? Is it the tone of our messages you find disagreeable?
 
goggles said:
I still do not see how I am judging you but fine, i'll try and tone it down since you are right about this being a christian forum.

How can we ask in a more honest/humble way? Is it the tone of our messages you find disagreeable?
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Well you seem to think you have a "right" to challenge and judge us? Come as a person who respects that we have honest reasons intentions for our beliefs and ask and treat us like you would want to be treated ...with respect...
 
Hey you know there is some forums out there that allow some really strait forward debate..I mean folks don't hold back.. but they allow the believers to defend themselves with the same zeal as those who are challenging the ideas of their faith. I don't have a problem with that sort of debate if the rules are the same for everyone? I can give any of you guys an address to a site where you can go at it, but I would warn you they might challenge you past what you want or expect!
 
Mitspa said:
First place this is a Christian forum that promotes itself as a place that believers can get away from the ridicule of the world. 2nd you are not the judge nor do I submit that you have any right to question me or any other member of this forum if they don't want or ask for your opinion. So that leaves you in trying to be a judge of others that don't accept you have any right to judge... thus we have the conflict where we must basically tell you that if want to know about our faith..come humbly and ask in an honest way and if we choose to share our faith and beliefs with you? we will do so...But you have no "rights" or authority to judge!
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Really? I cannot find that description on this site.
 
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