Ginger has a point as well. And someone here has mentioned before that "discernment is sadly lacking in the church".
Are you ready to rightly divide the word of truth?
- Thread starter John Zain
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LOL @ GlomungFrankly, it appears to me that most of the world has become violently insane. "Lacking discernment" is putting it very kindly.
I had a 20 line rant coming but thought better of it.
Matt. 24:4-5......11,
Mark 13: 5-6
2 Thess.2:9
Kevin........How many Bible verses does it then take to make another verse valid????
Read a little more in the Revelation and you will see that the A/C and False Prophet 'WORK THROUGH SIGNS AND MIRACLES". Rev. 13:13-14.
What they do in the Rev. IS WHAT Jesus was warning against in Matt. Mark.
You keep right on talking about those false prophets my good woman! There are more out here than you think who agree with you on this matter.
The ONLY ones getting rich through the "prospertity message" is the messenger !!!!
I was once declare a "prophet" by a pastor who was amazed that I had detailed information on something I could not have know about. Mind you, I do not now, nor have I ever claimed to be a prophet!
What happened was this: I had a dream and it troubled me because I felt it was a message from God, but I couldn't figure out what it meant. I asked my pastor about it and he said I was probably stressing over something. I said I don't know what I could be stressing about. A few days later someone made a comment in passing and suddenly I understaood the meaning of the dream.
I went to my pastor because it had to do with people he was dealing with and nothing to do with me.
I told what the dream meant and he declared, "Ginger, you're a prophet!" He said this because there was no way I could have known about the things I told him.
Now comes the irony......not only did he do nothing after declaring my message was a prophesy from God, but about month or so later, when I said something he didn't like, he said, "You're not a prophet." Twice!!! And I hadn't said anything of the kind! He simply said it because he didn't agree with my statement.
LOL I never, EVER, claimed to be a prophet, nor have I ever considered myself one. But the moment I say something he doesn't agree with, he de-prophets me. Too funny!!!!
The moral of the story is: Be careful who you look up to today, because they may tick you off tomorrow!
What happened was this: I had a dream and it troubled me because I felt it was a message from God, but I couldn't figure out what it meant. I asked my pastor about it and he said I was probably stressing over something. I said I don't know what I could be stressing about. A few days later someone made a comment in passing and suddenly I understaood the meaning of the dream.
I went to my pastor because it had to do with people he was dealing with and nothing to do with me.
I told what the dream meant and he declared, "Ginger, you're a prophet!" He said this because there was no way I could have known about the things I told him.
Now comes the irony......not only did he do nothing after declaring my message was a prophesy from God, but about month or so later, when I said something he didn't like, he said, "You're not a prophet." Twice!!! And I hadn't said anything of the kind! He simply said it because he didn't agree with my statement.
LOL I never, EVER, claimed to be a prophet, nor have I ever considered myself one. But the moment I say something he doesn't agree with, he de-prophets me. Too funny!!!!
The moral of the story is: Be careful who you look up to today, because they may tick you off tomorrow!
Hi Major,
All the verses you stated are in connection with False miracles and signs. Yes the world has been, and will continue to be decieved through false miracles and signs - no doubt about it. This is the reason we need to test everything against scripture. Secondly The apostles performed many miracles after Jesus stated what He did in Mathew and Mark - does this make them false prophets? No it does not. Paul stated that all believers should desire the Spiritual Gifts. Why? So they can be effective in ministry and build the kingdom of God. In the book of Revelation, there are two witnesses who perform miracles - does this make them false prophets? We need to becareful not to classify all miracles as false. Satan will counterfeit but this does not remove the validity of the Holy Spirit.
The word does warn, as you have rightly pointed out, that people will be decieved by false miracles and signs but, this does not in any way make real works of the Holy Spirit invalid today. Why do we then pray for people to get healed if we do not believe in miracles anymore? Why then do we pray at all if we do not expect God's intervention in our daily lives? Any intervention by God in our lives is a miracle - a supernatural event. I feel that many discount miracles today because of their valid disbelief in man - but don't underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit given to us today by Jesus Himself for the building of His kingdom. As I am writing this, I am looking at my daughter who was saved by Jesus last year, when all the doctors said she would die - a true miracle and testimony to the saving power of Jesus Christ.
The early church was filled with examples of normal believers, not only the apostles, performing miracles in the name of Jesus.
The reason people are decieved by false miracles and signs is because they are not seeking the giver of the miracles but the event itself - some kind of short lived entertainment value. If we seek the giver of miracles - Jesus Himself, then we will not need to rely on the occurance of miracles to believe.
I am not going to try and convince you about the validity of miracles today, as long as you seek the source of true miracles - Jesus Himself, then you will never go wrong.
God bless
Quite a few people are under the impression "prophecy" has two meanings where in reality it only ever has one. The way to clarify the issue is to go back to the root word from which "prophecy, prophesy, prophetic, etc. springs. Namely "prophet".
In the OT the Hebrew word we translate as "prophet" is "nabiy" (pronounced "naw-bee"). In the NT the Greek word is "prophetes". Both have the same meaning. They mean "spokesperson" or "speaker for". So a prophet of the Lord is a spokesperson or speaker for the Lord. Basically a person who speaks, or passes on, the word of the Lord to others.
Where the confusion comes in is because the Lord often speaks not only of the past and present but of the future also. BUT we need to understand no prophet ever claimed HE had the ability to see the future. They spoke of things revealed to them by the Lord or the angels of the Lord. In other words even when speaking of future events they were still only being a spokesperson for the Lord the same as if speaking of current or past events. The meaning of "prophecy" does not change, only the content of the prophecy. Whether speaking of the past, the present or the future it is still speaking no more (and no less) than the word of the Lord Himself.
I hope this has clarified things.
Kevin,
This is one of those areas in which neither one of us can be wrong. I respect your opinion and you may very well be correct in in it. I just do not agree with it but we are still brothers in Christ non the less!.
To your statement of......"The apostles performed many miracles after Jesus stated what He did in Mathew and Mark - does this make them false prophets".
Absolutly NOT! They did as what they were told by Jesus to do AND THE PROFF OF THEIR MINISTRY WAS THE SIGNS AND MIRACLES WHICH THEY DID>
Today we have the completed Bible as our proof in the ministry for Chris. The apostles did not have that ability. Therefore, God gave them "SIGN" gifts which valided what they said in their teaching and preaching.
I personally believe that we (Church) has been seduced by Satanic forces today and as a whole we seek EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCES as PROOF of our faith. Consider the "contemporary music" that now is played and sung in the majority of churches. It speaks to the lowest level of human emotions and not the highest expectations of worshipping God.....IMO.
That is my opinion based on literally thousands of events in various churches all over America and elsewhere. Now, that opinion of mine is rooted in ONE Bible verse which speaks volumes:
Romans 10:17......
"FAITH COMES BY HEARING, AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD".
Agreed 100%!!!
FORTH tell as opposed to FORETELL!
Kevin,
I certainly believe in miracles today. I have seen miracles myself.
The point I believe everyone needs to consider is this............Are we equating the actions of Benny Hinn, Richard Roberts, and that group as miracles????
Those people IMHO are frauds and false prophets and liars. That sounds hard, and I am sure someone will object to that statement.BUT I have picked up the shattered pieces of the human lives devistated by that group of people OVER AND OVER AND OVER. People overcome by emotions and adreinilne and the excitement of the moment where a man claimed they were healed of cancer only to die months later of that same cancer because they stopped their therapy. IT IS A TRAGEDY and that is what I am speaking to.
MEN do not have the ability to perform miracles today (healing) BUT GOD CERTAINLY DOES!!
I believe people would like to call themselves as prophets when especially people label them as such. But those who are humble, they won't like to be treated as such. I have heard and seen people say, "I'm a prophet!" and I'm ok with that as long as they're really teaching or saying the Word of God. Sometimes, I'm just a little taken aback from those that bluntly put it ahead of their name like "Apostle Andrew", "Prophet Bernard", "Apostle Cathy" and so forth.
Forthtell and foretell fairly well explains it. I heard Benny Hinn say that Jesus was going to appear on the platform with him. Kenneth Copeland says the same thing. There's a program on television which invites guests to relate a personal appearance by Jesus and what He told them was coming. Those are "prophetic utterances" that are gobblydegook. On the other hand, I prophesy every time I post here. That is the act of simply providing a comment relative to the discussion. I prophesy when I preach. I simply provide a message. No gobblydegook there. Yes, I would love to be Dr. Phil, just for the opportunity to tell it like it is.
Funny indeed...........But the moment I say something he doesn't agree with, he de-prophets me. Too funny!!!!
The moral of the story is: Be careful who you look up to today, because they may tick you off tomorrow!
I had this one dream many, many years ago that made sense to me afterwards. I don't want to share it here though. Then most of my dreams were R.E.M.'s (maybe because few were like warnings to me) which they say is good. I don't have R.E.M.s lately though
Funny indeed.
I had this one dream many, many years ago that made sense to me afterwards. I don't want to share it here though. Then most of my dreams were R.E.M.'s (maybe because few were like warnings to me) which they say is good. I don't have R.E.M.s lately though
I am assuming by R.E.M. you mean Rapid Eye Movement. According to all the "boffins" that is the stage of sleep when ALL dreaming occurs. The test is does it accord with ( or at least not conflict with ) the word of God and does it actually come to pass. There is nothing wrong with talking about the dreams we have. if you TELL of a dream you have and LATER it comes to pass people can then judge for themselves if it was prophetic for you spoke of the dream BEFORE the events depicted came to pass. But if AFTER the event you say "I had a dream this would happen" then it is only the word of the "dreamer" that they did and they should not expect that anybody believe them.
If we speak of the dream as merely a dream before the event then it is the event and not us that attests to it's prophetic nature. But if WE declare BEFOREHAND that it is prophetic and it does NOT come to pass then we have declared ourselves to be false prophets.
The Bible declares that the Lord indeed speaks to some in dreams. We therefore cannot contradict the word of God by declaring it is not possible. All we can do is TEST to see if it is from the Lord or not.
Where in the Bible do we find that the Lord speaks to us today, as Christians, in dreams?