Let's see indeed what it is Peter DECLARED to all present (and to us also):-
Peter declared in no uncertain terms that even as he spoke the prophesy of Joel WAS BEING fulfilled and Jesus WAS pouring forth the spirit as promised. Not that this was but a small "teaser" of what is to come but that " this (happening right now) is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel".
I do not have a problem believing the word of Peter.
But tell me if you are saying the Holy Spirit has not yet been poured out as Joel prophesied how is it that you believe it has been poured out on ... you? I am assuming you believe in the indwelling of the Holy spirit in all who are in Christ? The Spirit that has been poured out on Peter is the same Spirit that has been poured out on me also. For the prophecy was not that it would be poured out on 12 selected persons but on all flesh, sons, daughter, young or old, on all of His servants and handmaidens. I am a servant of Christ, are you not also?
Yes. I believe Peter as well. (That should not be a question IMO).
I do not believe that the pouring out of the Holy Spirit as posted in Acts by Peter is the event Joel was speaking of and I so stated that opinion.
My comment in post # 76 was..........
"
The Joel passage describes the supernatural activity of God’s Spirit at work in events surrounding a yet future coming of Christ. Thus, Peter’s point is that of similarity or analogy between what the Holy Spirit will do in the future with the nation of Israel and what He was doing in the first century when the church was founded."
Now, do I believe in the "INDWELLING" of the Holy Spirit as the moment of salvation.....ABSOLUTELY my dear friend. What Christian dosen't? In fact, can one be in Christ WITHOUT the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit???
Am I a servant of Christ?
Does my postings sound to you as if I am not a servant of Christ and if so...which ones my brother???
Again I say to you that we all do not share the same opinions of certain Bibical things. In this case, neither one of use can be wrong...just different.
So, as we discuss the CONTEXT, moving on.........
"This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." there is nothing in the words to tell us what is "this" and what is "that". The word "this" is emphatic and the word "But", with which Peter's argument begins, sets what follows in contrast. This shows that the quotation was used to rebut the charge of drunkenness (v. 13)
So far from these signs and wonders being a proof that "these men" were drunken, "this", said the apostle is "that" (same kind of thing) which Joel prophesied would take place "in the last days". Peter does not say these
were the last days, but this (that follows) is what Joel says of those days. He does not say "then was fulfilled", nor "as it is written", but merely calls attention to what the prophet said of similar scenes yet future. So the CONTEXT or CENTER of discussion is NOT IF it happened or if it will happen
but WHEN.
Therefore to understand what Peter really meant by "this is that", we must turn to the prophecy of Joel. And in order to understand that prophecy, we must see exactly what it is about.
1. Is it about the Christian Dispensation?
2. The Dispensation of judgment which is to follow it?
3. Is it about the Jew and the Gentile?
4. Is it about the church of God?
The Structure gives the scope of
Joel as a whole, in which occur the "signs" to which Peter points in connection with "
this is that". From this it will be seen that the prophecy of Joel links up with the last clause of the "song of Moses" in Deut. 32:43 (see Rev. 15:3), which ends .......................
"And (He) will be merciful unto His Land and to His People."
So Joel 2.18 begins....................
"Then will Jehovah be jealous for His Land, and pity His People."
"
THIS", therefore is "
THAT". It is the subject-matter and remote context of Acts 2:16. It concerns Jehovah's Land and Jehovah's People, and has consequently nothing to do with the church of this Dispensation. Peter calls "the house of Israel" (
v. 36) to the very repentance spoken of in the call to repentance of Joel (1:14 - 2:17
.
But the key to the correct understanding of Peter's quotation in my opinion lies in the word
"afterward" of Joel 2:28.
The question is, after what? This we can learn only from Joel himself. Peter does not explain it, nor can we understand it from Peter's words alone.
The Structure again shows us that the whole subject of 2:18 - 3:21 is, --evil removed from the Land and the People, and blessing bestowed on both; and these are set forth alternately. In 2:28, 29 we have spiritual blessings connected with the temporal of the previous verses, introduced thus:
And it shall come to pass
AFTERWARD, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh,".
After what? The answer is
AFTER the temporal blessings of
vv. 23-27. It is important to note that the temporal precede the spiritual blessings. The holy spirit was not poured out on all flesh at Pentecost:
only on some of those present. None of the great signs in the heavens and on the earth had been shown. No deliverance took place in Jerusalem: both Land and People were still under the Roman yoke.
Always nice to speak with you!
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