while i am not MC i do agree they do hold authority to some degree.... in the Government offices today u.s and others . they want to play God . especially in the states . it reads we the people not we the political office . the majority office holders are ungodlily some have a form of but deny the power there of.
Constructive Criticism in Today's Preaching
- Thread starter bobinfaith
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Yes, and it also stands true that they will all be judged for their conduct, attitude, policies, and how they wielded the power they were given.
It's also true that God sets them up, and He takes them down at His good pleasure, to the prevailing idea among so many preachers these days who teach to refrain from Godly influences within government systems by Christians, that is flawed because it denies that God is over it all, and can put leaders in place, and He can remove them at will. We can pray for them when they do right, and we can pray for their removal by the Lord when they do evil. It's all in God's hands. We can speak openly about the wicked ones, as did John the Baptist, and we can praise them in the streets when they do good.
MM
OK.
I must say that I do not agree.
I believe that men whose hearts have been changed by God to think like God will have in their hearts the desire to change what is wrong.
Therefore it is God in Christ who is in the hearts of men to do what is the right thing to do whether it is in government or the local PTA.
The Bible does in fact command Christians to “submit … to the governing authorities” in Romans 13:1 and to pray “for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence” in Timothy 2:2.
However, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we should or must endorse all of their policies or approve of every specific action they take. This is especially true in a democratic society, where it is the duty of responsible citizens to examine public servants with a discerning and critical eye. Nevertheless, Christians are responsible to uphold biblical righteousness in a hostile culture while also expressing respect for its leadership.
For sure, God is sovereign over human events. At the same time, He gives people the freedom to make their own choices and go their own way. In other words, no one can become a king, emperor, governor, president, assemblyman, or senator apart from God’s will. But this doesn’t mean that possession of political power amounts to a stamp of approval from God. That’s where the “will of the creatures” and the “liberty and contingency” of a whole host of secondary causes come into play. After all, the Bible calls King Nebuchadnezzar God’s “servant” in Jeremiah 25:9. This obviously does not imply that Nebuchadnezzar was a godly man.
Edmund Burke............ “All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.“
Agreed!
We can stand by, observe and do nothing and let God so what God does. Or we can do what God wants us to do as His hands.
When we read God's Word we learn real quick that God monitors governments; God raises them up and brings them down. Every human government is accountable to God and is accountable to maintain its affairs with justice and with righteousness. When the government is no longer acting justly and no longer protecting life—sanctioning the killing of babies, allowing homosexual marriages, for example—then it is the task of the church to be the prophetic voice, to call the state to task and tell the state to repent and do what God commands it to do.
A righteous government in the present age is impossible. Every time a theocratic government has been attempted, it has fallen under the weight of human corruption. The reason is simple: Satan owns all the present political systems (qv Mt 4:9, the devil can't give away what he doesn't own).
Ok, that's funny.... an "Achille's Heel" is not actually a physical location in a body, it's a person's weakness. like for me, chocolate is one of my Achille's heels.
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Hi MM,
So glad you brought up that scripture. (Rom. 13: 1) So let`s look a bit more at God`s word.
`For by Him (Jesus) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions, or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)
So we see that authority positions were made by the Lord, (as well as everything else). Lucifer was given the position of rulership as kingpriest in the angelic realm. He sinned and therefore he was cast out, however his authority position is still there. Then when he was cast out he usurped the authority realm of principalities and powers. God could have cast him out of there and will in time as scripture reveals.
There are authority positions on the earth also as Rom. 13: 1 tells us.
`Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. (Rom. 13: 1)
That refers to the `authority position,` and not the person. The person is not appointed by God, however the authority position is. let us see what the Lord says about this.
`Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.` (Matt. 20: 25)
1. Those who are great.
2. Rulers of the Gentiles.
3. The Gentiles.
There we have a hierarchical system of power and control. The misuse of the authority positions that God appointed. Do we see that today? Yes, in every Political System of the world, there is a hierarchical system of control over the people. We have -
1. Those who are great - the powers behind the rulers.
2. The rulers.
3. The people.
Whether it is Democracy, Socialism, a Dictatorship etc, all the authority positions are upheld by a hierarchical system of power and control -Bureaucracy, (rules and regulations) and military. And these certainly are NOT God appointed.
This World System is dominated by the prevalence of sin with its own methods, manners, customs, fashions and laws.
This System operates apart from God and offers position, possession and power, (authority) to those who serve its interests.
And it is this World System of Power and Control that will be judged.
MC, I understand what you're saying, although I disagree, which is fine. I'm just a simple hick-country red-neck boy who has developed a hard-headedness toward delving deep into the details of contexts and verse phraseology that, much of the time, go against the many socially engineered theologies and emotive belief systems that most generally interpret many things within scripture contrary to what they're actually saying.
Your rationalizations do have an appeal toward agreement in what you said. However, I have no stake in either direction of it all, but at this time, I just can't seem to find myself agreeing with you on the basis of what appears to me are some variations and deviations from the basic and foundational meaning in the key verses I addressed in this.
But, hey, that's ok. I really enjoyed your thoughts on it all, and appreciate your take on it, but there's no violation for me to call out someone like Biden, who was once again sniffing at a little girl's hair and skin in camera from just the other day, with his right hand not visible as to what part of her anatomy it may be touching. The appearance of perversion is there, with prior incidents serving as verification that it's not just an innocent, isolated incident. Perversions are enjoying increased support, and even demands of celebration, from more and more politicians. Soon, pedophilia will become an accepted and protected "orientation," and already is in various groupings. Like John, I will speak to the culture about it in the hopes it will inspire their ire against perversions espoused and praised by those in government structures where they are violating God's absolutes.
MM
nothing wrong with that i am hick country red neck myself
MM,
It is easy to write personal thoughts but much harder to do what God`s word tells us to -
`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, but shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.` (2 Tim. 2: 15 & 16)
The Lord clearly points out that those who are great & rulers of the Gentiles are NOT God ordained.
`But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it SHALL NOT BE SO AMONG YOU, but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.` (Matt. 20: 25 & 26)
Positions of authority are God ordained, however it is people who chose people for those positions.
Simply -
POSITION = FROM GOD.
PERSON = FROM MAN.
exactly. I don't think anyone needs to be told twice
But if you have a person in a high position who is lording it over people and not being a servant, then all you can do for the time being is pray for them.
In my country we call the leader the prime MINISTER, because a minister is meant to minister to the people, and serve them. Not themselves. We don't call rulers 'Presidents' or 'Governors' or "prince' or 'duke'. It is sometimes a bit random who will come into that position. But if someone is in that position and abuses it, they can resign or get voted out. If you want to speak truth to power you can write a letter or march or protest. That's up to you. But don't think that everyone is in that position because God puts them there.
When we become Christians, Jesus is our Lord and saviour, not any of the politicians, now matter how good or bad we think they are.
HOLD ON! When did You take my place as the "old simple country boy"????????.........LOL
I agree with you my brother.
We.....born again believers are called to expose the works of unrighteous men.
I have been doing that for the last 40 years from God's pulpit as I have not been shy in calling out those who perpetuate sins upon the people whether they be government or religious.
Matthew 23, Jesus rebuked the scribes and Pharisees and called them “hypocrites,” “blind guides,” “blind fools” … even worse, “you brood of vipers.”
Ephesians 5:11..........
"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."
2 Tim. 4:2-4.........
"Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."
Hi MM,
Now you said -
It's also true that God sets them up, and He takes them down at His good pleasure, to the prevailing idea among so many preachers these days who teach to refrain from Godly influences within government systems by Christians, that is flawed because it denies that God is over it all, and can put leaders in place, and He can remove them at will. We can pray for them when they do right, and we can pray for their removal by the Lord when they do evil. It's all in God's hands. We can speak openly about the wicked ones, as did John the Baptist, and we can praise them in the streets when they do good.
We all agree that Christians are to be a voice in society and government. We also would agree that God is over all. However to say that God is putting certain people in place, and that is why we should `storm the gates of hell,` so we can have a righteous government, is incorrect. You yourself said there will be no righteous government till the Lord comes, so which is it. You seem to not be very clear on this matter.
And to say that you are just ` a red neck` etc is just a cover for not `rightly dividing the word of truth,` and is just trying to put down anything I have written. Not good.
Now you said -
It's also true that God sets them up, and He takes them down at His good pleasure, to the prevailing idea among so many preachers these days who teach to refrain from Godly influences within government systems by Christians, that is flawed because it denies that God is over it all, and can put leaders in place, and He can remove them at will. We can pray for them when they do right, and we can pray for their removal by the Lord when they do evil. It's all in God's hands. We can speak openly about the wicked ones, as did John the Baptist, and we can praise them in the streets when they do good.
We all agree that Christians are to be a voice in society and government. We also would agree that God is over all. However to say that God is putting certain people in place, and that is why we should `storm the gates of hell,` so we can have a righteous government, is incorrect. You yourself said there will be no righteous government till the Lord comes, so which is it. You seem to not be very clear on this matter.
And to say that you are just ` a red neck` etc is just a cover for not `rightly dividing the word of truth,` and is just trying to put down anything I have written. Not good.
Well, I'm sorry if it seemed to you that I'm doing nothing more than trying to put down what you say. I stated quite clearly that I disagree with you, which I was surprised that anyone would see that as falling into the category of antagonism.
If you saw me, you would not put my face together with the words you see here. I'm far more articulate and scholastic in my presentations (except for when my fingers start crossing one another on the keyboard). I'm a simpleton in looks, and with a red neck from lots of sun while wearing collared shirts and a black cowboy hat with a Col. insignia pressed into the center-front, like that colonel in the Apocalypse Now movie. Same exact hat.
But, to keep from offending you further, I will refrain from disagreement with you on anything. Deal? I'm too easy going to push aggression as my modus operandi, as the old cliche' goes.
MM
I don't really know what having a red neck has to do with anything...sorry not following.
If you got a red neck you need to put aloe vera on it or wear a much bigger hat?
I get freckles on mine. But I usually wear some kind of scarf.
anyway, I don't think it matters what colour your skin is. Whatever skin colour we are, it won't really matter because Jesus is Lord of all. Just as long as you get your Vitamin D you should be fine.
If you got a red neck you need to put aloe vera on it or wear a much bigger hat?
I get freckles on mine. But I usually wear some kind of scarf.
anyway, I don't think it matters what colour your skin is. Whatever skin colour we are, it won't really matter because Jesus is Lord of all. Just as long as you get your Vitamin D you should be fine.
Hi MM,
This is what you said appealing to just being `simple` and what I wrote as too complex.
I'm just a simple hick-country red-neck boy who has developed a hard-headedness toward delving deep into the details of contexts and verse phraseology that, much of the time, go against the many socially engineered theologies and emotive belief systems that most generally interpret many things within scripture contrary to what they're actually saying.
And that MM is just `goboldy gook, ` nonsense. I encouraged you to `rightly divide the word,` and not to present `vain babblings.`
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, but shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.` (2 Tim. 2: 15 & 16)
Dear brothers and sisters;
Constructive Criticism in Today's Preaching
is getting off topic in the last posts and I'm going to ask some of us to take a cooling off period.
Please, let's take time to pray, get refreshed and focus our energies for a little while, to fellowship and post in the other topics of our forum.
I'll followup tomorrow evening and update a post regarding today's preaching.
God bless you all and your families.
Constructive Criticism in Today's Preaching
is getting off topic in the last posts and I'm going to ask some of us to take a cooling off period.
Please, let's take time to pray, get refreshed and focus our energies for a little while, to fellowship and post in the other topics of our forum.
I'll followup tomorrow evening and update a post regarding today's preaching.
God bless you all and your families.
Hello 2404;
Good point on information overload. The challenge is we must be sensitive to the younger generation of adults who are more inquisitive with substance, than just information being presented to them as in the 1960s - 1990s.
God bless you, brother, and your family.
Aren't you blessed that I have been so good???????