Could you be a cult leader?

Jesus didn't want to be idolized, but some people did, but he always deflected them and pointed to God, saying My Father did this and that, not himself, and that he couldn't do anything without his Father's say so and His Will. Jesus said why do you call me good, only God is good.

How many leaders do you know say that? The prime minister never says 'I'm doing what my dad tells me to do'. The CEO of whatever company doesn't give glory to God. The pope never says that nor the Queen, (probably because, their ancestor has to be DEAD before they take the role/throne) they think they are it and can do what they like, if it's in the name of God like they ARE God. Most leaders act like it's all their own ideas or that they are God as if God died and they are the now God in His place.

There was a tv show called american idol where people sang songs and wanted everyone to idolise them and give them praise. I don't think they ever say, well, its my Dad you should be thanking, or my mum. They are the reason I'm here.
 
I think this topic is good to discuss the gift of charisma. I am quite fascinated by it lately to be honest. Its a force to be reckoned with. I doubt anyone can lead and pull off a grand mission without it.


I think charisma is a great quality/gift in a person. Inspiring leaders that influence us to act willingly usually have it.. They ooze confidence and we are attracted to them, they are visionaries, and they are laced with Divine Grace and we respect and want to follow them to achieve goals. We are influenced by them or we think strongly they will solve a problem in life. I had a boss once who inspired in me to do my best. Its a shame that most other bosses I have had have lacked charisma.

Moses must have had this quality, and I assume the prophets were also highly gifted by God with charisma, but what separates them from people like Jim Jones and David Koresh?
I mean, its no secret that Moses killed thousands of his people. He had the Promised land to occupy and work towards.

Both cult leaders had apocalyptic views and withdrew their people in fear of their enemies. >not good.

Moses stepped out in faith and lead his people to succeed and lead them to overcome fear of their enemies with courage and faith. >good.
 
Very good point Via,
You gave the definition of the word charisma. It seems to be a trait that certain ppl have that does inspire,the hang up I believe is also the devotion it inspires.

Take Adolf Hitler,in my opinion he was a megalamananaic and insane. Yet he inspired thousands of ppl to turn in their fellow man ,exercise brutality,and even kill others in devotion to his cause.

It can be seen as an attraction ,inspiration or fascination. We are still of the flesh and flesh or ppl is what we know.
Inspiration is good,this is a kind of lifting up or can be seen as encouragement,as you described a certain boss. Ppl that just inspire others don't usually seek their own glory though.

Attraction can certainly lead to a sinful life bc I think we begin to fantasize about that person,lifting them up,worshipping them. Attraction is not usually innocent!

Fascination becomes obsession in most ppl and causes them to be drawn to, without thinking of the consequences .


I agree we should explore the drawing power of the ppl involved,thank you.
 
Via dolarossa said:
I think this topic is good to discuss the gift of charisma. I am quite fascinated by it lately to be honest. Its a force to be reckoned with. I doubt anyone can lead and pull off a grand mission without it.


I think charisma is a great quality/gift in a person. Inspiring leaders that influence us to act willingly usually have it.. They ooze confidence and we are attracted to them, they are visionaries, and they are laced with Divine Grace and we respect and want to follow them to achieve goals. We are influenced by them or we think strongly they will solve a problem in life. I had a boss once who inspired in me to do my best. Its a shame that most other bosses I have had have lacked charisma.

Moses must have had this quality, and I assume the prophets were also highly gifted by God with charisma, but what separates them from people like Jim Jones and David Koresh?
I mean, its no secret that Moses killed thousands of his people. He had the Promised land to occupy and work towards.

Both cult leaders had apocalyptic views and withdrew their people in fear of their enemies. >not good.

Moses stepped out in faith and lead his people to succeed and lead them to overcome fear of their enemies with courage and faith. >good.
Click to expand...
You said.........
"I mean, its no secret that Moses killed thousands of his people. "

I do not agree that Moses should be included in a Cult discussion. According to the Bible story, after the Golden Calf was built, God was incensed. He told Moses that he would slaughter all of the Hebrews and make a Nation from Moses. But...........However, Moses was able to convince God to give the people another chance. So instead of mass murder, Moses was the agent of actually saving millions!

Now, actions have "consequences" and the Golden Calf was still a sin and the most avid supporters needed to be punished for their sin.

Romans 6:23......
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

As a result, Moses commanded his kinsmen to eliminate those individuals. The dead numbered 3000 individuals.
 
Major said:
You said.........
"I mean, its no secret that Moses killed thousands of his people. "

I do not agree that Moses should be included in a Cult discussion. According to the Bible story, after the Golden Calf was built, God was incensed. He told Moses that he would slaughter all of the Hebrews and make a Nation from Moses. But...........However, Moses was able to convince God to give the people another chance. So instead of mass murder, Moses was the agent of actually saving millions!

Now, actions have "consequences" and the Golden Calf was still a sin and the most avid supporters needed to be punished for their sin.

Romans 6:23......
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

As a result, Moses commanded his kinsmen to eliminate those individuals. The dead numbered 3000 individuals.
Click to expand...
Moses was doing the will of the Lord there!
 
Major said:
You said.........
"I mean, its no secret that Moses killed thousands of his people. "

I do not agree that Moses should be included in a Cult discussion. According to the Bible story, after the Golden Calf was built, God was incensed. He told Moses that he would slaughter all of the Hebrews and make a Nation from Moses. But...........However, Moses was able to convince God to give the people another chance. So instead of mass murder, Moses was the agent of actually saving millions!

Now, actions have "consequences" and the Golden Calf was still a sin and the most avid supporters needed to be punished for their sin.

Romans 6:23......
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

As a result, Moses commanded his kinsmen to eliminate those individuals. The dead numbered 3000 individuals.
Click to expand...
What does it mean that God was
Incensed?
 
Charisma?
be careful,

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 KJV
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
crossnote said:
Charisma?
be careful,

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 KJV
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
crossnote said:
Charisma?
be careful,

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 KJV
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Click to expand...
Yep, as seen in groups such as word of faith and Nar!
 
I've finished watching a documentary of Chad Daybell. He proclaimed himself a revealed doomsday prophet.
Apparently he has some kind of charisma, I don't see it....lol, but he is able to convince ppl of odd beliefs.

I think more will be revealed of this demon possession,zombies ect. believing couple will come out when the trial starts
 
D3vot3d2G0d said:
I've finished watching a documentary of Chad Daybell. He proclaimed himself a revealed doomsday prophet.
Click to expand...
Highlights the importance of 'testing the prophets' against God's Word, whether they be Mormons, Islam or whatever/whoever...

Isaiah 8:19-20 (KJV) And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
I think it's possible to be gifted, or charismatic, and then squander your gifts/misuse them, by not giving glory to God. Actually quite common for people to do that.

Jim Jones may have had a gift of healing, but then it got taken away so he kept up a charade of it by doing the chicken guts thing.
 
Lanolin said:
I think it's possible to be gifted, or charismatic, and then squander your gifts/misuse them, by not giving glory to God. Actually quite common for people to do that.

Jim Jones may have had a gift of healing, but then it got taken away so he kept up a charade of it by doing the chicken guts thing.
Click to expand...

Jones did not have a gift of healing. NO MAN today has the gift of healing.

God heals as He wishes through the prayers of the believers, but NO MAN has hat gift.
 
D3vot3d2G0d said:
I've finished watching a documentary of Chad Daybell. He proclaimed himself a revealed doomsday prophet.
Apparently he has some kind of charisma, I don't see it....lol, but he is able to convince ppl of odd beliefs.

I think more will be revealed of this demon possession,zombies ect. believing couple will come out when the trial starts
Click to expand...

Nothing new there sister. Men have been fleecing the flock for thousands of years because people like to hear things that tickel their ears.

NO ONE knows anything about what is coming which is not found in the Word of God.
 
One of the problems I'm seeing in my church anyways, is that I feel it is starting to lean cultic. That sin is taken much more lightly now than it was in the past.

Our pastor made a sermon out of not judging others and told a story about how the elders of his church went up to a man who was smoking and asked him to quit smoking. This person didn't come back to church with his family for 4 years, and he went on to say that this was a bad thing.

I was under the impression that calling other believers out on their sins is a good thing, and that helping someone to repent is what God wants for his children.

This seems to be the first step that many other denominations have taken to the point that some of them are even outright ordaining homosexuals and other unrepentant people to be pastors of their flocks.

I'm going to be searching for a new church if it continues to trend this way.

It's a shame because I finally thought I had found a church to call home.

So what I've come to see is that you don't even have to deny the trinity and Jesus divinity to be led astray. It could be as simple as minimizing peoples sins and becoming accepting of said sins to the point that no one is repenting anymore.
 
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