Did Jesus Die For Everyone...?

My perspective is that in essence they are all One. The Triune nature was for our benefit, but does not
represent their actual existence.

i.e. If you speak to any one of them, all three hear you.
or If you tickle Jesus, both God the Father and the Holy Spirit giggle. (that is IF God the Father actually giggles)

In my wife's case, she adores Jesus, but is terrified of the Father, and doesn't really think about the Holy Spirit.
 
My perspective is that in essence they are all One. The Triune nature was for our benefit, but does not
represent their actual existence.

i.e. If you speak to any one of them, all three hear you.
or If you tickle Jesus, both God the Father and the Holy Spirit giggle. (that is IF God the Father actually giggles)

In my wife's case, she adores Jesus, but is terrified of the Father, and doesn't really think about the Holy Spirit.

in substance they are all one .. with three distinct essences' ..
the things Jesus said concerning the Father, such as I do not seek my will but His, displays their actual existence ..

example .. at Jesus' baptism all THREE essences were present ..
I ask .. WHAT benefit would we gain by deception ???
as well as Jesus saying there are three, and the three are in agreement ..
if not so, then Jesus/God LIED !!!

WHY the deception ??? .. where is the benefit ???
 
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Question: When you think of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit... how is your mind and heart with each when you think of them, is there a different reverence and love and fear that you may have for one but not necessarily for the other. Do you think of all Three as God or as different... i know in my heart that God is all Three of Them ...

People fear God the Father, but most of the time we see whether in pictures or while talking with others that Jesus is regarded as a 'buddy' , spoken to with less reverence, and i am not always sure that most Christians will understand that the Holy Spirit is also God...

very good ..
because God has 3 essences .. we CAN love Him on all three levels at once ..
a protecting love, a brotherly love, and a nurturing love ..
if God was 1 essence .. this would not be possible, and your love incomplete ..

God Bless you ..
 
the Good news was for all .. that doesn't mean Jesus' sacrifice is applied to all ..
I never said it's applied to all, I said it's AVAILABLE to all. Anyone who wants it can partake of it and be reborn from death into life. Otherwise, if it weren't available to all mankind then they would need Jesus to come back and do something extra. But it's finished, and it's for all mankind. The only sin left that can keep someone out of Heaven is the rejection of Jesus, because they refuse the only way to get rid of their sins through what He DID already at the cross.
 
To clarify for anyone: if Jesus' sacrifice on the cross did NOT already pay the penalty for all mankind's sins that ever were and will be, then WHAT did He accomplish?
 
To clarify for anyone: if Jesus' sacrifice on the cross did NOT already pay the penalty for all mankind's sins that ever were and will be, then WHAT did He accomplish?

To clarify for anyone: Jesus' sacrifice on the cross did pay the penalty for ANY sins committed and would be committed, and made that payment available for WHOMSOEVER'S sins that asks Him to apply that payment to their sins ..
 
To clarify for anyone: Jesus' sacrifice on the cross did pay the penalty for ANY sins committed and would be committed, and made that payment available for WHOMSOEVER'S sins that asks Him to apply that payment to their sins ..

So then what Jesus said at least 3 times. The only sin then would be not to ask him to apply that payment to their sin.
 
So then what Jesus said at least 3 times. The only sin then would be not to ask him to apply that payment to their sin.

when you believe, scripture says ALL sins prior are gone ..
IF you sin after that you retain them if not repented ..
pray in this way .. forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those ....

what is the point Jesus' teaches us to ask forgiveness ???
why does he say, if you do not forgive others, neither will I forgive you ???
or I tell you no .. if you do not repent, you will all perish ..
I can keep going, but I'm sure you get the point ..

to the 7 churches ..

Rev 2:5
‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.

Rev 2:21
‘I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.

Rev 3:3
‘So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.
 
Jesus died for ALL men, and ALL were forgiven at the cross when Jesus cried: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Forgiveness corresponds to mercy; and mercy withholds the judgment of God: "...and mercy rejoices against judgment." Surely we have all sinned and deserve the judgment death. However, at "...the times of this ignorance God winked at (turned His face from); but now commands all men everywhere to repent." God has shown man mercy so that man may repent.
Now remission of sins is another matter. Remission comes in the waters of baptism, where the blood is applied to our sins and they are washed (blotted out/erased) away when the NAME of Jesus Christ is invoked! "You shall call his NAME Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins." Again: "For there is none other NAME under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved."
 
when you believe, scripture says ALL sins prior are gone ..
IF you sin after that you retain them if not repented ..
pray in this way .. forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those ....

what is the point Jesus' teaches us to ask forgiveness ???
why does he say, if you do not forgive others, neither will I forgive you ???
or I tell you no .. if you do not repent, you will all perish ..
I can keep going, but I'm sure you get the point ..
.

I always wondered why some churches practice of making a person repent of their sins when coming up for the alter call. As if someone would be ever to remember them all. I know my list was way to long, I would have kept the folks at church for at least a couple days before I got done and that was the ones I remembered.

It says believe in your heart the Lord Jesus and confess that with your mouth. I don't recall an unbeliever having to fess up to all their sins in scripture. If we sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin.

Someone told me that we don't have to forgive to be forgiven. That was under the law, but Jesus said it (Red letters are always good enough for me), so what we reap, God is not mocked we will reap what we sow. That is not under the law but in Galatians.
 
Yes, and 1 John 1:9 is actually written to Gnostic Jews and Believers (just the 1st chapter, because in the start of the 2nd chapter he addresses just Believers), and he is using the editorial form of "you" in saying if you confess your sins, He is faithful and just to cleanse you of all unrighteousness.
Now if you're cleansed of ALL unrighteousness, how much unrighteousness is left? Of course none, so what remains? Only righteousness. Since righteousness cannot ever be taken away from you, diminished or cancelled, you know you cannot lose your righteousness. Since you cannot lose your righteousness, how many times can you be cleansed of all unrighteousness? Answer: one time. It is the same as everything else He released and made available by the cross (in giving us the Blessing, His righteousness, His faith, His favor, His gifts, His fruits, His wisdom, His love, etc); it's all there for the taking.
The forgiveness is always there and has already been done. All our sins have already been imputed to Jesus' body on the cross. None have been imputed to us. The word cleanse in that verse is also in the present infinitive, which to illustrate (like Joseph Prince's book, Destined to Reign) is like a waterfall of God's forgiveness through Jesus' blood which you stand inside. If you try to throw black water on someone who is standing under a waterfall, how much of that black water can get on them, or stay on them? None. Same with sin. So we can repent of particular behavior, habits or otherwise sins, and receive our forgiveness and cleansing, but it's already there, and already done. That way there is no guilt, no shame, no condemnation - all of these were born by Jesus for us already. Be free, and understand that you are now and forever righteous.
 
Yes, and 1 John 1:9 is actually written to Gnostic Jews and Believers (just the 1st chapter, because in the start of the 2nd chapter he addresses just Believers), and he is using the editorial form of "you" in saying if you confess your sins, He is faithful and just to cleanse you of all unrighteousness.
Now if you're cleansed of ALL unrighteousness, how much unrighteousness is left? Of course none, so what remains? Only righteousness. Since righteousness cannot ever be taken away from you, diminished or cancelled, you know you cannot lose your righteousness. Since you cannot lose your righteousness, how many times can you be cleansed of all unrighteousness? Answer: one time. It is the same as everything else He released and made available by the cross (in giving us the Blessing, His righteousness, His faith, His favor, His gifts, His fruits, His wisdom, His love, etc); it's all there for the taking.
The forgiveness is always there and has already been done. All our sins have already been imputed to Jesus' body on the cross. None have been imputed to us. The word cleanse in that verse is also in the present infinitive, which to illustrate (like Joseph Prince's book, Destined to Reign) is like a waterfall of God's forgiveness through Jesus' blood which you stand inside. If you try to throw black water on someone who is standing under a waterfall, how much of that black water can get on them, or stay on them? None. Same with sin. So we can repent of particular behavior, habits or otherwise sins, and receive our forgiveness and cleansing, but it's already there, and already done. That way there is no guilt, no shame, no condemnation - all of these were born by Jesus for us already. Be free, and understand that you are now and forever righteous.


Hi Rodain... what you are then saying is that once saved always saved and one cannot lose it... if by once confessing sins (unrighteousness) and one becomes cleansed of past sins (righteous now) that one cannot fall and become a sinner again but will always be without sin. i am not trying to start a whole debate about OSAS because i know those that believe this do not ever want to think they can lose it, but humans are not righteous all the time, most of the time those that choose to be on the path of our Lord are but they do fall. Of course if by their own choice they want to be repentant of their sins then they will be cleansed again, for our Lord accepts our true repentance all the time it is done with our heart. Yes, He does offer us all of His blessings and gifts and love but it is up to us and our decisions that allows us to partake of His gifts.

There are sins which cannot be forgiven, and our Lord Jesus says:

"'He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matthew 12:22-32).

i am also sure that it is not just speaking against the Holy Spirit that cannot be forgiven, our separation from God is a mortal sin because it is spiritual death the same death that God the Father had warned of to Adam and Eve ... Yet, even this one can be forgiven by our Lord Jesus, when we separate ourselves from Him we can always come back to Him as did the prodigal son. But, i do ask, if it is only speaking against the Holy Spirit which makes the sin unpardonable neither here nor in the afterlife...
 
Jesus died for ALL men, and ALL were forgiven at the cross when Jesus cried: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Forgiveness corresponds to mercy; and mercy withholds the judgment of God:

if Jesus died for ALL men, and ALL were forgiven at the cross ..
why does Jesus send people to hell ??? .. seriously, please answer that ..

here are just a couple verses that don't fit into your THEOLOGY ..

Luk 12:5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Mat 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Mat 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1Pe 4:18 AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

Mat 6:15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Mar 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ’Lord, Lord, ’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Luk 13:5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Mat 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Mat 5:29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
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YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHY JESUS SAID "FATHER FORGIVE THEM" ON THE CROSS .. NOR WHO HE WAS SPEAKING ABOUT ..
IT WAS ABOUT THOSE WHO NAILED HIM TO THE CROSS ..

1) CENTURION SHOWING A BELIEF JESUS WAS GOD
Mar 15:39 When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"

2) CENTURION ACKNOWLEDGING HIS SINS AND SHOWING REPENTANCE
Luk 23:47 Now when the centurion saw what had happened, he began praising God, saying, "Certainly this man was innocent."

3) CENTURION SEEKING TO OBEY GODS WILL FOR HIM
Luk 23:47 Now when the centurion saw what had happened, he began praising God, saying, "Certainly this man was innocent."

I USED THE ABOVE VERSE TWICE BECAUSE HE BEGAN PRAISING GOD ..
 
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now I will teach you something very few know ..

the sins Jesus died for, were for us the sour sinning grapes who do repent ..
the sins Jesus never accepted, were those who, who are grapes of abomination ..

GOSPEL OF MATTHEW ..

GOOD QUALITY BUT (MIXED WITH ABOMINATION) ..
Mat 27:34 they gave Him wine to drink mixed with gall; and after tasting it, He was unwilling to drink.

POOR QUALITY WINE ..
Mat 27:48 Immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink.

GOSPEL OF MARK ..

GOOD QUALITY WINE (MIXED WITH ABOMINATION) ..
Mar 15:23 They tried to give Him wine mixed with myrrh; but He did not take it.

POOR QUALITY WINE ..
Mar 15:36 Someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink, saying, “Let us see whether Elijah will come to take Him down.”

it was the SOUR WINE he accepted from the FULL JAR ..
Jhn 19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine

Jesus accepted the sour wine (the poorest quality wine there was) ..
this less then perfect wine represented SINNERS ..
and was given Him on a hyssop ..
the hyssop is purple and represented His Kingship ..
the same as was used to apply the blood to the door of the Hebrews before their passover ..
the door represented Jesus Himself ..
the blood of the lamb that saved them applied to the door with the hyssop represented Jesus' blood ..

thus the passover in Egypt before the Exodus was a picture of Jesus' redemptive (passover) power of the cross for us also to passover .. the 40 years wandering in the desert represented the 3 days in the tomb .. the resurrection of Jesus makes entering the promised land/heaven possible ..

note: only Matthew and Mark cover Jesus' rejection of the good wine with the Myrrh & Gall ..
but all 4 Gospels cover Jesus' acceptance of the low quality wine ..

Luk 23:36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming up to Him, offering Him sour wine,
 
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so what about this Myrrh & Gall mixture ???

Mat 27:34 says Chloe = gall was a bluish-green bitter herb and a sedative, also possibly containing wormwood ..

Mar 15:23 says smyrnizo = myrrh, a bitter gum obtained by incisions made in the bark: as an antiseptic it was used for embalming

note: it seems wormwood is another name for myrrh (possibly named by the way it leaks out) and was used for embalming, hence another reason WHY Jesus rejected it as He would be resurrected, as well as the mixture also represented the bitter herbs ..

I'll leave it to you to figure it out WHY a FULL jar of wine (Jhn 19:29) was at the cross ..
Mat 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins (NOT ALL)
Mar 14:24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. (NOT ALL)

Gall is the English translation of (1) the poppy and its juice (opium) and (2) bile from the liver and gallbladder.
1. Poppy
Hebrew var) (ro'sh) = gall; the poppy, so called from its heads.
Hebrew var ym@ (me-ro'sh) = juice of poppies, opium (Jer. 8:14; 9:15; 23:15); hence poison, (Deut. 32:32, 33; Job 20:16); synonymous with bitter, poison, venom.
2. Bile
Hebrew hr*r{m+ (merorah), for gall (from gallbladder), poison, venom, or a bitter thing.
Greek colhv (chole) = gall, bile.

Wormwood is the English translation of Artemisia Absinthium (ref. illustration), a bitter shrub.
Hebrew hn*u^l^ (la`anah), from Arabic root meaning to curse.
Greek ayivnqion (apsinthion) (Rev 8:11).

Use of Gall and Wormwood
Opium was both eaten and made into a black tea.1 It was also mixed with wine to be used as a narcotic or medicine. Wormwood was leached in wine to make a strong drink or medicine and used in tea. It could also be mixed in some foods and eaten. In addition to records of its use in the Bible, it was used by the Egyptians in 1550 BC and by the ancient Greeks. In the late 1700's a recipe was discovered for using it in a very strong alcoholic beverage called Absinthe.

THE WINE WITH MYRRH/GALL REPRESENTED ABOMINATION AND CONDEMNATION ..

Jer 8:14 Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defensed cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.

Jer 9:15 therefore thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, “behold, I will feed them, this people, with wormwood and give them poisoned water to drink.

Jer 23:15 “Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets, ‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood And make them drink poisonous water, For from the prophets of Jerusalem Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

Deu 32:32 “For their vine is from the vine of Sodom, And from the fields of Gomorrah;
Their grapes are grapes of poison, Their clusters, bitter.


Lam 3:5 He hath builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travail.
Lam 3:6 He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old.
Lam 3:8 Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.

Amo 5:7 For those who turn justice into wormwood And cast righteousness down to the earth.”

Amo 6:12 Shall horses run upon the rock? will one plow there with oxen? for ye have turned judgment into gall, and the fruit of righteousness into hemlock:
 
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Mat 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins (NOT ALL)
Mar 14:24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. (NOT ALL)
 
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Simply put...Jesus died for every soul born after he died until The 1000,year Millennial kingdom. However he laid out in scripture for every person to be saved and spend eternity with him forever. IF they follow and obey what he said you must do. If what he said is rejected the "Rejectee" will be rejected by Jesus. So carefully learn verbatim what your Bible teaches even over words said by a Pastor, Priest, Evangelist, Minister, Pope, or anyone else if the Bible refutes said beleif.
 
Simply put...Jesus died for every soul born after he died until The 1000,year Millennial kingdom. However he laid out in scripture for every person to be saved and spend eternity with him forever. IF they follow and obey what he said you must do. If what he said is rejected the "Rejectee" will be rejected by Jesus. So carefully learn verbatim what your Bible teaches even over words said by a Pastor, Priest, Evangelist, Minister, Pope, or anyone else if the Bible refutes said beleif.

lol ..
if Jesus' blood covered ALL sins and not MANY .. then Jesus MISSPOKE according to "you" .. you better go straighten Him out ..

also according to "you", Jesus sure must be unrighteous to forgive all sins, and still send people to hell for those same sins ..

take your own advice .. I noticed "you" did not post one verse to back your theology ..

nor did you understand why Jesus rejected the one wine, but accepted the other ..
 
lol ..
if Jesus' blood covered ALL sins and not MANY .. then Jesus MISSPOKE according to "you" .. you better go straighten Him out ..

also according to "you", Jesus sure must be unrighteous to forgive all sins, and still send people to hell for those same sins ..

take your own advice .. I noticed "you" did not post one verse to back your theology ..

nor did you understand why Jesus rejected the one wine, but accepted the other ..
Sooo you believe " Once Saved...Always Saved" Jesus did die for all our sins however we have to do our part as he laid out through his Apostles in the Book of Acts.
You must be listening to some well meaning preacher who believes and teaches.."Confess with your mouth The Lord Jesus, and thou and thy house shall be saved"...and that is all their is...YOUR Saved....sure about that Preacher??

Why did Apostle Paul then state this: I Corinthians 9 v 27 " But I keep under my body, and bring it under subjection; lest by any means, when I have preached to others, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY"......Ask yourself this; Paul a former murderer of Christians, forgiven by Jesus who was also obedient by being Water Baptized
read Acts 9: v 18. Why would this great man of God an educated Jew, writer of most of the Epistles.......Concern himself on becoming a Castaway if " Once Saved...Always saved" was taught by Jesus or his Apostles? ...I Think the Answer is Obvious...

Now read what Jesus told those at The Great White Throne Judgement...Who "Preached in your name" (Matthew 7 verses 21-27) These " Christians Cast out Devils, Did many Wonderful works. Then The Lord makes it Crystal clear in those verses " Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN (or Woman)
 
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