That its not in a lions nature to eat a salad, nor is mans nature to choose God without the Holy Spirit.
Irresistible Grace & People "falling Away" From Christianity. How Does This Happen?
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Yet , nobody has the Holy Spirit until AFTER they have accepted God.
It was through the Holy Spirit God revealed his grace to ALL men. So, the problem lies with whom?
And they can't accept God until AFTER God gives them a new heart, or are you saying they have to choose first to have a new heart, before God gives them one?
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. - Ezekiel
I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. - John
You lost me, I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could be because I've been out in the sun all day, and I'm tired.
Look guys I was wonderfully and fearfully saved, I did not "choose" by free-will to believe and be saved, ( I was chosen to be saved) and I surrendered to a power and truth greater than myself...In fact I did not really understand the concept of "being'' saved...I knew I had to surrender to God, and later understood the truth of what had happened to me. Salvation comes by the work of the Holy Spirit, not by the will of man. Mans response is to surrender his will, to that which has taken him captive. Maybe some think their way to God, and maybe some "think" they are saved and are not?
I agree with this.
Yes, Salvation comes by the work of the Holy Spirit, not by the will of man. It is the conviction which overcomes you which is caused by the Holy Spirit. This conviction is what makes you see you need Jesus in your life, then you choose to surrender as much as you can at that time. As a young Christian, it is hard to give up all your will and this process in learning to give up more and more of our will is how we learn and mature in Christ. Many are presented with the evidence from the Holy Spirit, but they are too hard hearted to be convicted and as a result will not surrender to God's will. So the choice is there, but there is no credit or reason to brag on making the choice. It is the opposite. To choose to surrender is to give up all rights to any credit or ability to be esteemed highly. We must accept that we are nothing, and allow Christ's love to fill us. We all have a destiny God wants for us. We have to get on that strait and narrow path, live in the Spirit, and choose to follow His lead.
Even if Jesus never died, there was a great divide between Hades and Abraham's bosom.
CCW made an excellent point Where. God gave us more then animals when He gave us IQ>10. IQ = accountability. IQ = free will. High IQ is why Jesus died for ALL mankind. No 'evolving' mankind. No ability to discern is what makes babies and mentally handicapped exempt for now.Why not? Doesn't the bible compare us to sheep?
Are you saying animals are like robots and don't have a choice?
I think it's time for some definitions:
Free Will: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Choice: an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.
Because of my job, my wife was concerned that the kids would grow up with resentment because we move every three years. My response was that seeing the world would help them understand more those around them, than those in one neighborhood all their lives having never met or understand other's beliefs or cultural influences. In other words, they wouldn't know any other life to judge it right or wrong unless someone plants a seed to get them to evaluate their lives.
Without the Holy Spirit to tell us our life is not the right one, how is anyone to know the truth unless they be told. Our minds are the gardens we have to maintain. Whatever is planted that's what grows. (Whatsoever a man sows that's what he'll reap.) This is our own battlefield. We plant the seed about the Lord via word or deed and the Holy Spirit makes it so that seed can grow. At some point the individual makes a choice; feed the seedling, weed the seedling, or ignore it. If they don't weed it, then comes someone else, sent by God, to water the seedling, and if they accept the Lord, another could "harvest" that seedling, but God gives the increase (as Paul says). If our good news be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. No one comes to the Father but by Jesus. So even if they have a desire to know God, if they reject Jesus, they won't know Him.
Interestingly enough, "free will" was in the news http://www.cnet.com/news/free-will-may-be-an-illusion-study-says/
I believe "free will" is a made up subject to explain away the randomness of events in the our lives or to put the blame on someone else... so it all comes down to choice:
Deu 30:19 [KJV]
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
"What about the pigmy in Africa who's never heard the name of Jesus?" Paul says that the word of God is written in our hearts and that the stars cry out to God's glory, by them, shall he be judged. They still get the prompting from the Holy Spirit that there is Someone out there, it's written in our DNAs and it's our CHOICE to act on the prompting or not.
Just some thoughts...
Free Will: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Choice: an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.
Because of my job, my wife was concerned that the kids would grow up with resentment because we move every three years. My response was that seeing the world would help them understand more those around them, than those in one neighborhood all their lives having never met or understand other's beliefs or cultural influences. In other words, they wouldn't know any other life to judge it right or wrong unless someone plants a seed to get them to evaluate their lives.
Without the Holy Spirit to tell us our life is not the right one, how is anyone to know the truth unless they be told. Our minds are the gardens we have to maintain. Whatever is planted that's what grows. (Whatsoever a man sows that's what he'll reap.) This is our own battlefield. We plant the seed about the Lord via word or deed and the Holy Spirit makes it so that seed can grow. At some point the individual makes a choice; feed the seedling, weed the seedling, or ignore it. If they don't weed it, then comes someone else, sent by God, to water the seedling, and if they accept the Lord, another could "harvest" that seedling, but God gives the increase (as Paul says). If our good news be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. No one comes to the Father but by Jesus. So even if they have a desire to know God, if they reject Jesus, they won't know Him.
Interestingly enough, "free will" was in the news http://www.cnet.com/news/free-will-may-be-an-illusion-study-says/
I believe "free will" is a made up subject to explain away the randomness of events in the our lives or to put the blame on someone else... so it all comes down to choice:
Deu 30:19 [KJV]
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
"What about the pigmy in Africa who's never heard the name of Jesus?" Paul says that the word of God is written in our hearts and that the stars cry out to God's glory, by them, shall he be judged. They still get the prompting from the Holy Spirit that there is Someone out there, it's written in our DNAs and it's our CHOICE to act on the prompting or not.
Just some thoughts...
Don't you guys think you are confusing / over complicating the term free will... too much?
Free will is defined by Websters as ''the ability to make choices that are not controlled by fate or God''. We have that. God does not force us to serve Him. Hell does not force us to serve Him.
We can act as we wish. The fact that God judges each of us according to our deeds does not mean we don't have free will to do as we please. God simply separates the wolves and the lambs and puts them in a home of their choosing.
We have both. With that definition of free will I could argue that God has no free will. We have the ability to choose good, evil or both. John 3:19 and Rev 3:16.
Free will is defined by Websters as ''the ability to make choices that are not controlled by fate or God''. We have that. God does not force us to serve Him. Hell does not force us to serve Him.
We can act as we wish. The fact that God judges each of us according to our deeds does not mean we don't have free will to do as we please. God simply separates the wolves and the lambs and puts them in a home of their choosing.
Well we have whole groups with millions of members who post the term upon the title of their denominations, and cannot seem to understand that the very term is a contradiction to the obedience of the gospel. In fact the only thing some seem to think is that they have "free-will" which is a deception. I like to challenge this term, so that others might not be misled by such an unbiblical concept.
I agree with the rest of your post but this line is not true. We have a brain. A very advanced brain that can discern it is evil to 'beat' our parents. To kill our neighbor. etc etc
How can we not have free will? The opposite of free will is a robot and we are not robots...
All of us can grasp the term, we don't need a dictionary or anyone to define it really. Free will = free will. I also disagree with the ''we have as much free will as given examples...like 'Where's' with 'a lion has free will to choose who to eat'.....we have free will on par with God.
And I was about 48 years being an Arminian, so no problem. Bring it on. However, I have to admit that I came to this site more for fun than for anything serious. Sometimes, I just get So Tired of the arguing. Debate is great, until I, I, I, I, I start getting tired.? There are many scriptures that explain free will, I am safely assuming Mitspa and Abdicate know them.
The free will discussion between you and I however will be more severe / scriptural....because I know what Calvinists believe..............
Well I do believe Arminians and Calvinists can and should have civil / calm discussions...we both love Jesus 1 Cor 2:2.And I was about 48 years being an Arminian, so no problem. Bring it on. However, I have to admit that I came to this site more for fun than for anything serious. Sometimes, I just get So Tired of the arguing. Debate is great, until I, I, I, I, I start getting tired.
There is only one thing I feel I have to jump on with every Calvinist and that is their interpretation of Rom 9. Rom 9 is ''just'' saying that God can do whatever He wants. But to then assume that God does not give free will is an assumption. The ''rest / 99%'' of scripture tells us what God does in fact decide to do with His power....and the stand out event being...that He went to the cross for all of us!!!! Suggesting there is no free will is hence cheapening the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Not the wisest belief / interpretation for someone who loves the Lord and considers the fact that they are still on earth...and not yet in heaven. 1 Cor 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
SO disagree. Since you somewhat challenged me in your post #138 above, possibly the main problem Arminians have is that they believe they have full control of their thoughts and actions. As to the Arminianism I was IN, we were little gods unto ourselves, totally in control of both achieving our salvation (by our choice) and in losing it (by our choice). We decided. ("I have decided to follow Jesus, I have decided to follow Jesus, I have decided to follow Jesus, No turning back, No turning back.")
And I see your post just posted. G-d can't do whatever He wants? He is not omnipotent?
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