Is it possible Cain's "wife" was a Neanderthal?

[Eternally Gratefull]

I do not know so I had to do some homework.

Using your thought that what happens today must have been applied to what has happened then ....
" a global flood similar to the biblical one were to occur (40 days and 40 nights of rain, with widespread flooding over all the lands, etc), it would have no effect whatsoever on the dynamics of the Carbon geochronological clock. There would be no adjustments required. No carbon would have been added or removed from the carbon cycle, the isotopic ratio of atmospheric carbon would be unaffected, as would be that of land plants or marine organisms.
Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/3k9azb

Source: https://www.quora.com/If-the-global...they?msclkid=2c9062c8d13711ec8aa1dbb75751733b

Firstly, it would only matter to things older than the date of the flood. So if the flood happened at, say 3000BCE, then anything younger than 3000 BCE is not altered by it. If a flood could alter measured dates, we’d expect to see a whole cluster of dates where they’ve been altered to- and a gap where the dates were moved from. And that would be the same time worldwide.

Secondly, there are many other forms of dating, apart from carbon dating. There are other forms of radiometric and isotope dating. There are ice cores. There are tree rings. There are sediment logs- such as Varve - Wikipedia, many of which show annual layers If there was a global flood, we need to explain how it doesn’t show up in these records.

Thirdly, Carbon 14 dates can be altered by contamination, but it is much easier to make them look younger than actual fact, not older. For example, someone Carbon dated dinosaur bones, and got a date of about 25,000 years old- because of the varnish applied to hold the surface together.

Not sure where you got this info. But I would dig deeper. While a FLOOD might not change anything. The change in atmosphere can and does.

I asked before if you or anyone was there 500,000 years ago. I see you have not answered.

As for aspects of a flood. Have you ever seen what a local flood can do to a particular area? Imagine what a catastrophic flood would do to the entirety of the earth. Rain for 40 days and nights? Not sure that would be enough to flood the whole earth. It is recorded that the fountains of the great deep burst open. The water came from below, not above, Imagine how the surface of the earth changed. Imagine how the fossils which were created by this flood would appear in the fossil record? Imagine what would happen on earth temperature wise where there is no land for over a year to radiate the suns heat (ever hear of an ICE age? and imagine what would happen when lakes, which were created by this flood collapsed because they were not natural lakes (the grand canyon is one prime example)

I have a few theories I have studied concerning this flood and how it affected the earth. Both are more reliable to me than Old Earth theology.

We still also have death and destruction happen before sin even entered the earth through adam, Which caused and continues to cause the collapse of the earth.

Non of these things make sense to me,

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

The word translated as tail can also be translated as end or rump, there is an animal that fits this description. It is an herbivore and spends much of its time in the water. It is very territorial, when it shakes its rump (hips) it displaces the water and has capsized boats. It is the #1 deadly animal to man. Its is the hippopotamus.

So the hippopotamus is so powerful. only God can come at it? and is the greatest creature God ever created?

even if tail is rendered rump. Again have you ever seen a cedar tree from the middle east? Nothign about the rump, tail or anything of a hipp even remotely resembles a Lebanon cedar tree

 

[Dave F.]

So the hippopotamus is so powerful. only God can come at it? and is the greatest creature God ever created?

even if tail is rendered rump. Again have you ever seen a cedar tree from the middle east? Nothign about the rump, tail or anything of a hipp even remotely resembles a Lebanon cedar tree

It doesn't say its' tail is like a cedar tree it says he shakes it LIKE one, referring to the power with which it is shaken. Put yourself in Jobs time and now go fight a hippo.

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

It doesn't say its' tail is like a cedar tree it says he shakes it LIKE one, referring to the power with which it is shaken. Put yourself in Jobs time and now go fight a hippo.

This is not about if I can fight a hippo. It is about what Creature is so powerful that Only God himself can go against him

A hippo does not shake its tail like a cedar tree.. He actually has a very small tail.

 

[Dave F.]

This is not about if I can fight a hippo. It is about what Creature is so powerful that Only God himself can go against him

A hippo does not shake its tail like a cedar tree.. He actually has a very small tail.

Please read my last post. It is about the power of the creature, and He is speaking to Job, so, you have to put yourself in his time. Again the scripture says he shakes it LIKE a cedar, it does not say its' tail is as big as a cedar. His power is in his hips. Go back and read it again. It is figurative not literal. I said go fight a hippo to show that only GOD can control this animal and a man in Jobs time could not. Notice that God said only HE that made him can bring near his sword.

 

[Major]

Not sure where you got this info. But I would dig deeper. While a FLOOD might not change anything. The change in atmosphere can and does.

I asked before if you or anyone was there 500,000 years ago. I see you have not answered.

As for aspects of a flood. Have you ever seen what a local flood can do to a particular area? Imagine what a catastrophic flood would do to the entirety of the earth. Rain for 40 days and nights? Not sure that would be enough to flood the whole earth. It is recorded that the fountains of the great deep burst open. The water came from below, not above, Imagine how the surface of the earth changed. Imagine how the fossils which were created by this flood would appear in the fossil record? Imagine what would happen on earth temperature wise where there is no land for over a year to radiate the suns heat (ever hear of an ICE age? and imagine what would happen when lakes, which were created by this flood collapsed because they were not natural lakes (the grand canyon is one prime example)

I have a few theories I have studied concerning this flood and how it affected the earth. Both are more reliable to me than Old Earth theology.

We still also have death and destruction happen before sin even entered the earth through adam, Which caused and continues to cause the collapse of the earth.

Non of these things make sense to me,

I thought that I listed the sources I copies and pasted.

Well.....I am in no way an authority. What I have read is that humans actually were in North America over 100,000 years ago but they may not be related to any living group of people.

Also, recent DNA studies have shown that Modern humans probably did not expand out of Africa until 50,000 to 80,000 years ago.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/science/prehistoric-humans-north-america-california

Source........
Middle Paleolithic
Timeline of human evolution § Homo sapiens,
List of human fossils § Middle Paleolithic, and
List of first human settlements § Middle Paleolithic

• ∼320,000 to 305,000 years ago: Populations at Olorgesailie in Southern Kenya undergo technological improvements in tool making and engage in long-distance trade. [1]
• 315,000 years ago: approximate date of appearance of Homo sapiens (Jebel Irhoud, Morocco).
• 270,000 years ago: age of Y-DNA haplogroup A00 ("Y-chromosomal Adam").
• 250,000 years ago: first appearance of Homo neanderthalensis (Saccopastore skulls).
• 230,000–150,000 years ago: age of mt-DNA haplogroup L ("Mitochondrial Eve").
• 210,000 years ago: modern human presence in southeast Europe (Apidima, Greece).[2]
• 200,000 years ago: oldest known grass bedding, including insect-repellent plants and ash layers beneath (possibly for a dirt-free, insulated base and to keep away arthropods).[3][4][5]
• 195,000 years ago: Omo remains (Ethiopia).[6]
• 194,000–177,000 years ago: modern human presence in West Asia (Misliya cave in Israel).
• 170,000 years ago: humans are wearing clothing by this date.[7]
• ∼164,000 years ago: humans expanded their diet to include marine resources[8]
• 160,000 years ago: Homo sapiens idaltu.
• 150,000 years ago: Peopling of Africa: Khoisanid separation, age of mtDNA haplogroup L0.
• 125,000 years ago: the peak of the Eemian interglacial period.
• ~120,000 years ago: possibly the earliest evidence of use of symbols etched onto bone.[9][10]
• ~120,000 years ago: use of marine shells for personal decoration by humans, including Neandertals[11][12][13]
• 120,000–90,000 years ago: Abbassia Pluvial in North Africa—the Sahara desert region is wet and fertile.
• 120,000–75,000 years ago: Khoisanid back-migration from Southern Africa to East Africa.[14]
• 100,000 years ago: Earliest structures in the world (sandstone blocks set in a semi-circle with an oval foundation) built in Egypt close to Wadi Halfa near the modern border with Sudan.[15]
• 82,000 years ago: small perforated seashell beads from Taforalt in Morocco are the earliest evidence of personal adornment found anywhere in the world.[16]
• 80,000–70,000 years ago: Recent African origin: separation of sub-Saharan Africans and non-Africans.
• 75,000 years ago: Toba Volcano supereruption that may have contributed to human populations being lowered to about 15,000 people.[17]
• 70,000 years ago: earliest example of abstract art or symbolic art from Blombos Cave, South Africa—stones engraved with grid or cross-hatch patterns.

Again, I am not educated in this area. I am only posting information found on those sites.

Multiple independent evidences confirm an ancient earth, including 40 different methods of radiometric dating and numerous non-radiometric measurements: Ice core samples from Antarctica and Greenland provide an unbroken record of annual ice layers spanning the past 800,000 years. Annual tree ring records provide a continuous record of the past 15,000 years. Coral reefs record long ages of growth (Eniwetok Reef 140,000 years, and the Grand Bahama Reef 790,000 years). Ancient annual lake varve sediments provide evidence of earth’s history dating back 15 to 20 million years.
Sources......

1. “Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective,” Roger C. Wiens, http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/wiens.html ; C. John Collins, Science and Faith: Friends or Foes?
   
   (2003), 249-250; “Reliability of Radiometric Dating” , Hugh Ross, A Matter of Days: Resolving a Creation Controversy
   
   (2004), 175-184; William Newman, Geologic Time (U.S. Geological Survey, 1997), http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/contents.html ; Jeff Zweerink, “Ice Cores Reveal History,” www.reasons.org/ice-cores-reveal-history.“Geology and Creation Science,” www.answersincreation.org/geology.htm ; God’s Word, God’s World, Patti Townley-Covert (Editor), RTB (2009), 32-26; “The Age of Coral Reefs,” www.asa3.org/asa/education/origins/coralreefs.htm ; Davis A. Young and Ralph F. Stearly, The Bible, Rocks and Time: Geological Evidence for the Age of the Earth
   
   (2008), 310.

 

[Major]

Behemoth

Can you tell me what you think that is?

15 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;
He eats grass like an ox.
16 See now, his strength is in his hips,
And his power is in his stomach muscles.
17 He moves his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
18 His bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.
19 He is the first of the ways of God;
Only He who made him can bring near His sword.

what creature is it that is so powerful only God himself can come against him, and is "first" in the ways of God (above all others)

His tail like a cedar. Have you ever seen a lebonon cedar tree? A tall human is like an ant next to it

No I can not.

Can you prove that the quote is not "Mythical" or "Symbolic"?

Is there any context that demands that this is in fact a dinosaur?

 

[Major]

Behemoth refers to any large bodied, 4 legged animal. Dinosaur bones were not discovered until the 1800s, it is unlikely that God would mention them to Job as he would not have had any idea what a dinosaur was.

Maybe? I am not arguing the point. Only pointing out that ambiguities of being cemented in an opinion we can not prove.

But why not address the obvious?????

Genesis 2: 20 includes a list of all the groups of animals which Adam named. But what is clearly seen in This list is that it does not include dinosaurs.
Cattle are not dinosaurs.
The 'fowl of the air' are not dinosaurs either.
'Beasts of the field' is a clear reference to domesticated creatures used by man for agriculture. These clearly were not dinosaurs either.

Since Young Earth theology demands that Adam and Eve lived with those animals 6000 years ago, then WHY did Adam NOT name any of them?????

 

[Major]

So the hippopotamus is so powerful. only God can come at it? and is the greatest creature God ever created?

even if tail is rendered rump. Again have you ever seen a cedar tree from the middle east? Nothign about the rump, tail or anything of a hipp even remotely resembles a Lebanon cedar tree

METAPHORS!

 

[Major]

This is not about if I can fight a hippo. It is about what Creature is so powerful that Only God himself can go against him

A hippo does not shake its tail like a cedar tree.. He actually has a very small tail.

I think that maybe you are trying to make the Scriptures say something that they do not in fact say.

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

Please read my last post. It is about the power of the creature, and He is speaking to Job, so, you have to put yourself in his time. Again the scripture says he shakes it LIKE a cedar, it does not say its' tail is as big as a cedar. His power is in his hips. Go back and read it again. It is figurative not literal. I said go fight a hippo to show that only GOD can control this animal and a man in Jobs time could not. Notice that God said only HE that made him can bring near his sword.

God control an animal? God said only he could take a sword (hurt) the animal. You assume he is saying only he compared to Job?

The behemoth, which is not to far after the flood. Would be much larger than a hippo. A hippo is far from Gods greatest creatures

Once again, I used to believe like you. I can not anymore?

From what I see if the description. Nothing resembles a hippo

I thought that I listed the sources I copies and pasted.

Well.....I am in no way an authority. What I have read is that humans actually were in North America over 100,000 years ago but they may not be related to any living group of people.

Also, recent DNA studies have shown that Modern humans probably did not expand out of Africa until 50,000 to 80,000 years ago.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/science/prehistoric-humans-north-america-california

Source........
Middle Paleolithic
Timeline of human evolution § Homo sapiens,
List of human fossils § Middle Paleolithic, and
List of first human settlements § Middle Paleolithic

• ∼320,000 to 305,000 years ago: Populations at Olorgesailie in Southern Kenya undergo technological improvements in tool making and engage in long-distance trade. [1]
• 315,000 years ago: approximate date of appearance of Homo sapiens (Jebel Irhoud, Morocco).
• 270,000 years ago: age of Y-DNA haplogroup A00 ("Y-chromosomal Adam").
• 250,000 years ago: first appearance of Homo neanderthalensis (Saccopastore skulls).
• 230,000–150,000 years ago: age of mt-DNA haplogroup L ("Mitochondrial Eve").
• 210,000 years ago: modern human presence in southeast Europe (Apidima, Greece).[2]
• 200,000 years ago: oldest known grass bedding, including insect-repellent plants and ash layers beneath (possibly for a dirt-free, insulated base and to keep away arthropods).[3][4][5]
• 195,000 years ago: Omo remains (Ethiopia).[6]
• 194,000–177,000 years ago: modern human presence in West Asia (Misliya cave in Israel).
• 170,000 years ago: humans are wearing clothing by this date.[7]
• ∼164,000 years ago: humans expanded their diet to include marine resources[8]
• 160,000 years ago: Homo sapiens idaltu.
• 150,000 years ago: Peopling of Africa: Khoisanid separation, age of mtDNA haplogroup L0.
• 125,000 years ago: the peak of the Eemian interglacial period.
• ~120,000 years ago: possibly the earliest evidence of use of symbols etched onto bone.[9][10]
• ~120,000 years ago: use of marine shells for personal decoration by humans, including Neandertals[11][12][13]
• 120,000–90,000 years ago: Abbassia Pluvial in North Africa—the Sahara desert region is wet and fertile.
• 120,000–75,000 years ago: Khoisanid back-migration from Southern Africa to East Africa.[14]
• 100,000 years ago: Earliest structures in the world (sandstone blocks set in a semi-circle with an oval foundation) built in Egypt close to Wadi Halfa near the modern border with Sudan.[15]
• 82,000 years ago: small perforated seashell beads from Taforalt in Morocco are the earliest evidence of personal adornment found anywhere in the world.[16]
• 80,000–70,000 years ago: Recent African origin: separation of sub-Saharan Africans and non-Africans.
• 75,000 years ago: Toba Volcano supereruption that may have contributed to human populations being lowered to about 15,000 people.[17]
• 70,000 years ago: earliest example of abstract art or symbolic art from Blombos Cave, South Africa—stones engraved with grid or cross-hatch patterns.

Again, I am not educated in this area. I am only posting information found on those sites.

Multiple independent evidences confirm an ancient earth, including 40 different methods of radiometric dating and numerous non-radiometric measurements: Ice core samples from Antarctica and Greenland provide an unbroken record of annual ice layers spanning the past 800,000 years. Annual tree ring records provide a continuous record of the past 15,000 years. Coral reefs record long ages of growth (Eniwetok Reef 140,000 years, and the Grand Bahama Reef 790,000 years). Ancient annual lake varve sediments provide evidence of earth’s history dating back 15 to 20 million years.
Sources......

1. “Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective,” Roger C. Wiens, http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/wiens.html ; C. John Collins, Science and Faith: Friends or Foes?
   
   (2003), 249-250; “Reliability of Radiometric Dating” , Hugh Ross, A Matter of Days: Resolving a Creation Controversy
   
   (2004), 175-184; William Newman, Geologic Time (U.S. Geological Survey, 1997), http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/contents.html ; Jeff Zweerink, “Ice Cores Reveal History,” www.reasons.org/ice-cores-reveal-history.“Geology and Creation Science,” www.answersincreation.org/geology.htm ; God’s Word, God’s World, Patti Townley-Covert (Editor), RTB (2009), 32-26; “The Age of Coral Reefs,” www.asa3.org/asa/education/origins/coralreefs.htm ; Davis A. Young and Ralph F. Stearly, The Bible, Rocks and Time: Geological Evidence for the Age of the Earth
   
   (2008), 310.

God created the earth in six days. Man was created in that six day period. We know that man has only been walking this earth for some at most 10000 years.

Like you said, You are not studied. I am really not either. All I know is I have read evidence from both sides. And no longer believe in the "gap" theory of Genesis.

There is no need for the earth to be billions of years old (well unless you believe in evolution) God created the world to be populated and to be lived in

We either believe God created this mass and allowed evolution to grow it into a world that can sustain life

Or he created it in an aged state. Where at the time he created it, everything the creature needed to live was there.

alot of christian scientists believe the world ADAM to Noah lived in (pre-flood) was much more different. It had the ability to sustain life much larger than what we see today. The world post flood was more hostile. And not as forgiving as the pre-flood world.

Again Like I said. Study the flood. It changed my perspective on so many things.. Or continue to believe as you wish. This is not an essential doctrine, and I personally do not want to argue about this.

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

METAPHORS!

lol. If that helps you to continue to believe as you do. Be well..

I disagree..

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

I think that maybe you are trying to make the Scriptures say something that they do not in fact say.

Same can be said of you..

You have not proven that this is a hippo. Even before I changed my view on earth age, I did not believe it was a hippo.

 

[Major]

Not sure where you got this info. But I would dig deeper. While a FLOOD might not change anything. The change in atmosphere can and does.

I asked before if you or anyone was there 500,000 years ago. I see you have not answered.

As for aspects of a flood. Have you ever seen what a local flood can do to a particular area? Imagine what a catastrophic flood would do to the entirety of the earth. Rain for 40 days and nights? Not sure that would be enough to flood the whole earth. It is recorded that the fountains of the great deep burst open. The water came from below, not above, Imagine how the surface of the earth changed. Imagine how the fossils which were created by this flood would appear in the fossil record? Imagine what would happen on earth temperature wise where there is no land for over a year to radiate the suns heat (ever hear of an ICE age? and imagine what would happen when lakes, which were created by this flood collapsed because they were not natural lakes (the grand canyon is one prime example)

I have a few theories I have studied concerning this flood and how it affected the earth. Both are more reliable to me than Old Earth theology.

We still also have death and destruction happen before sin even entered the earth through adam, Which caused and continues to cause the collapse of the earth.

Non of these things make sense to me,

Yes......floods cause all kinds of problems. However, they do not produce skeletons of dinosaurs.
They do not cause tree rings to disappear.
They do not cause Ice in the Aric to melt and in fact it is so cold in Antarctica that the water would freeze.

Gleason Archer, Hebrew linguist, Bible scholar, educator, author, and champion for biblical inerrancy. He wrote the following in Hermeneutics, Inerrancy, and the Bible:

“Moses never intended the creative days to be understood as a mere twenty-four hours in length, and the information he included in [Genesis] chapter 2 logically precludes us from doing so. It is only by a neglect of proper hermeneutical methods that this impression ever became prevalent among God’s people, during the post-biblical era. Entirely apart from any findings of modern science or challenges of contemporary scientism, the twenty-four hour theory was never correct and should never have been believed—except by those who are bent on proving the presence of genuine contradictions in Scripture…Who can calculate the large numbers of college students who have turned away from the Bible altogether by the false impression that it bounds the conscience of the believer to the 24-hour Day theory?”

Source:
Gleason Archer, quoted from Hermeneutics, Inerrancy, and the Bible: [papers from ICBI Summit II], International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, Summit II (1982), Earl D. Radmacher and Robert D. Prues, Editors (1984), 329, 333-334.

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

No I can not.

Can you prove that the quote is not "Mythical" or "Symbolic"?

Is there any context that demands that this is in fact a dinosaur?

Is there any context that demands it is not a dino? Other than the fact you believe they are already extinct, so it can not be one?

 

[Major]

lol. If that helps you to continue to believe as you do. Be well..

I disagree..

That is OK. I only said that to allow you to understand that sometimes, Literal is not always the answer.

By the way.....I am a Literalist!

 

[Major]

Is there any context that demands it is not a dino? Other than the fact you believe they are already extinct, so it can not be one?

NO. But it was YOUR post so you need to defend your Post. I only respond to what you said.

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

Yes......floods cause all kinds of problems. However, they do not produce skeletons of dinosaurs.
They do not cause tree rings to disappear.
They do not cause Ice in the Aric to melt and in fact it is so cold in Antarctica that the water would freeze.

Gleason Archer, Hebrew linguist, Bible scholar, educator, author, and champion for biblical inerrancy. He wrote the following in Hermeneutics, Inerrancy, and the Bible:

“Moses never intended the creative days to be understood as a mere twenty-four hours in length, and the information he included in [Genesis] chapter 2 logically precludes us from doing so. It is only by a neglect of proper hermeneutical methods that this impression ever became prevalent among God’s people, during the post-biblical era. Entirely apart from any findings of modern science or challenges of contemporary scientism, the twenty-four hour theory was never correct and should never have been believed—except by those who are bent on proving the presence of genuine contradictions in Scripture…Who can calculate the large numbers of college students who have turned away from the Bible altogether by the false impression that it bounds the conscience of the believer to the 24-hour Day theory?”

Source:
Gleason Archer, quoted from Hermeneutics, Inerrancy, and the Bible: [papers from ICBI Summit II], International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, Summit II (1982), Earl D. Radmacher and Robert D. Prues, Editors (1984), 329, 333-334.

evening and morning were the first DAY

So to say Moses never intended these days to be merely understood as a 24 hour period is nonsensical.

I believe God has the power to create the world in 6 days, do you? The scripture says he spoke and it happened.

 

[Eternally Gratefull]

That is OK. I only said that to allow you to understand that sometimes, Literal is not always the answer.

By the way.....I am a Literalist!

Again.

I just look at what is said.

God said, Look at the behemoth, Then he described him in a way Job would understand the behemoth is.. As a creature that is so vast there is nothing like it..

when I look at that, I do not see a mere hippo

 

[Major]

evening and morning were the first DAY

So to say Moses never intended these days to be merely understood as a 24 hour period is nonsensical.

I believe God has the power to create the world in 6 days, do you? The scripture says he spoke and it happened.

Now we are getting to the argumentative area. I just will not argue!

Of course is the answer. God can and will do whatever He wants to do. That is not really part of the thread is it?