Is The Bible Questionable?

How would the Church test a supposed 'new word' from the Lord, if not by the written Word.
If it's in accord with the written Word, why would we need a 'new word'? And if it is at odds with the written word then we are to chuck it.
(BTW, I agree 'the perfect' -1Cor 13:10 is not referring to the Bible)

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
THE EASY test, of course is whether it's Biblical or not. NATURALLY anybody who claims to speak the LORD'S WORDS, MUST SPEAK BIBLICALLY!!! However the legitimate Prophetic WORD sometimes WILL NOT NECESSARILY agree with this or that "DENOMINATIONAL THEOLOGY", which is only an INTERPRETATION of God's Word, and possibly inaccurate.

THE JUST, BY HIS FAITH, SHALL LIVE (Hab 2:4 - Rom 1:17) has ALWAYS been in the Bible, but it was God's Prophetic WORD to Luther, that made that Scripture REAL - to HIM, and got the restoration of the Visible Church away from Roman Catholic heresy underway 500 years ago (It's STILL IN PROCESS).

The OLD TESTAMENT Test was whether the prophet's words came to pass. That still works (Camping, and Whisnant being examples of FALSE Prophets, and who caused SERIOUS PROBLEMS for folks who took them seriously).

And in my case, there's nothing whatsoever in the Bible about starting a Bluegrass Band to perform Nursing Home ministry, but the Prophetic WORD (Word of knowledge) from the Holy Spirit let me know what God wanted, AND showed me who the members of the group would be.

In Corinthians 14, Paul cautions that "prophetic Words" are to be "Judged" by the others. In one case I spoke a prophetic word in a meeting, and another one present had received the same word, without the Burden to speak it. It was a true word dealing with the establishment of an AG church in Flower Mound, TX.

IN another case, my wife received a personal prophetic message from a person unknown to us, and a month later another person unconnected to us, and to the first person delivered the identical personal message. That's when you take it seriously. When I receive a prophetic word from somebody, I file it in "Pending" and wait for confirmation. Given the nature of Pentecostal churches, most of 'em DIE in Pending. Some don't.

Bottom line - only a FOOL would commit resources based on an unconfirmed "prophesy" from an unknown source.

But as Ephesians points out there is the OFFICE of a prophet -
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Given the obvious state of confusion in the Visible Church in 2021, it seems the 5-fold ministries are still VERY MUCH NEEDED.
 
But as Ephesians points out there is the OFFICE of a prophet -
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
He 'gave' prophets in the OT and He 'gave' apostles during the Gospels and especially Acts. They laid the foundation (who is Christ) upon which our faith is built...

Ephesians 2:20-22 (KJV) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Peter 3:2 (KJV) That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
 
How would the Church test a supposed 'new word' from the Lord, if not by the written Word.

1 John 2:20​


“But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.”

there are actions of some you can plainly see are fake/ fleshly action .saying its of the spirit. when its not. then we have some denoms that operate in spiritual things more than others we have those who say God told me yet HE NEVER SPOKE TO ANYONE ELSE . i have been in some wild services that i questioned .but kept to my self. we have to be careful what we deem fake and what is not.
 

1 John 2:20​


“But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.”

there are actions of some you can plainly see are fake/ fleshly action .saying its of the spirit. when its not. then we have some denoms that operate in spiritual things more than others we have those who say God told me yet HE NEVER SPOKE TO ANYONE ELSE . i have been in some wild services that i questioned .but kept to my self. we have to be careful what we deem fake and what is not.

I am a little different but also the same.

I too have been in some strange situations from Africa to Haiti and Central America. I too have experienced demon activity and witch doctors operating.

I am different in that I did not keep my thoughts to myself because I knew what was FAKED and demonic. And yes, there was a couple of times that I was in a little bit of a pickle, but I knew that if I was true to the written Word of God, God would be true to me....and here I am 20 years later talking to you on a computer still standing up for the Word of God!
 
THE EASY test, of course is whether it's Biblical or not. NATURALLY anybody who claims to speak the LORD'S WORDS, MUST SPEAK BIBLICALLY!!! However the legitimate Prophetic WORD sometimes WILL NOT NECESSARILY agree with this or that "DENOMINATIONAL THEOLOGY", which is only an INTERPRETATION of God's Word, and possibly inaccurate.

THE JUST, BY HIS FAITH, SHALL LIVE (Hab 2:4 - Rom 1:17) has ALWAYS been in the Bible, but it was God's Prophetic WORD to Luther, that made that Scripture REAL - to HIM, and got the restoration of the Visible Church away from Roman Catholic heresy underway 500 years ago (It's STILL IN PROCESS).

The OLD TESTAMENT Test was whether the prophet's words came to pass. That still works (Camping, and Whisnant being examples of FALSE Prophets, and who caused SERIOUS PROBLEMS for folks who took them seriously).

And in my case, there's nothing whatsoever in the Bible about starting a Bluegrass Band to perform Nursing Home ministry, but the Prophetic WORD (Word of knowledge) from the Holy Spirit let me know what God wanted, AND showed me who the members of the group would be.

In Corinthians 14, Paul cautions that "prophetic Words" are to be "Judged" by the others. In one case I spoke a prophetic word in a meeting, and another one present had received the same word, without the Burden to speak it. It was a true word dealing with the establishment of an AG church in Flower Mound, TX.

IN another case, my wife received a personal prophetic message from a person unknown to us, and a month later another person unconnected to us, and to the first person delivered the identical personal message. That's when you take it seriously. When I receive a prophetic word from somebody, I file it in "Pending" and wait for confirmation. Given the nature of Pentecostal churches, most of 'em DIE in Pending. Some don't.

Bottom line - only a FOOL would commit resources based on an unconfirmed "prophesy" from an unknown source.

But as Ephesians points out there is the OFFICE of a prophet -
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Given the obvious state of confusion in the Visible Church in 2021, it seems the 5-fold ministries are still VERY MUCH NEEDED.
You said............
"And in my case, there's nothing whatsoever in the Bible about starting a Bluegrass Band to perform Nursing Home ministry, but the Prophetic WORD (Word of knowledge) from the Holy Spirit let me know what God wanted, AND showed me who the members of the group would be."

Come on Bob.......you and me and everyone reading that knows it is just nonsense!

God never told you to go to a doctor but you said you have all kinds of health issues.
God never told you to buy a car but you have owned several.
God never told you to buy and play a guitar, but there you are playing one in your avatar.


You said..........
" In one case I spoke a prophetic word in a meeting, and another one present had received the same word, without the Burden to speak it. It was a true word dealing with the establishment of an AG church in Flower Mound, TX."

I once told my father in law I was going to marry his daughter. He said NO I was not and I said......I said...I have received a message from God and you can agree or we are moving out of state and you will not see your grandchildren. The rest of the story is.....My wife CONFIRMED my prophetic message and her father lived to see his grandchildren and Great grand children.

Now we can continue this as long as you want to but I think we can all see what this will lead to.
 

1 John 2:20​


“But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.”

there are actions of some you can plainly see are fake/ fleshly action .saying its of the spirit. when its not. then we have some denoms that operate in spiritual things more than others we have those who say God told me yet HE NEVER SPOKE TO ANYONE ELSE . i have been in some wild services that i questioned .but kept to my self. we have to be careful what we deem fake and what is not.
It’s the subtle differences that need to be tested by God’s Word. Even most unbelievers can tell the obvious.
 
One of the things I've seen addressed in this thread is the battering ram of "interpretation" that can be, and is, used as the means to discredit or even silence the points made by others. That seems to be a favorite go-to for so many who find themselves unable to defend their position with concise and verifiable verses throughout scripture.

It's more productive to ask for the reasoning behind a particular belief and the verses presented as allegedly being the backing for said belief, and ask them why they think that or those verses support their position, and thus (hopefully) leaving out the accusation of "interpretation." If the one putting forth the strange and outlandish nonsense is unable to make their case from the scriptures they present, then that can be pointed out for what it is without being offensively obtuse.

Just my thoughts.

MM
 
One of the things I've seen addressed in this thread is the battering ram of "interpretation" that can be, and is, used as the means to discredit or even silence the points made by others. That seems to be a favorite go-to for so many who find themselves unable to defend their position with concise and verifiable verses throughout scripture.

It's more productive to ask for the reasoning behind a particular belief and the verses presented as allegedly being the backing for said belief, and ask them why they think that or those verses support their position, and thus (hopefully) leaving out the accusation of "interpretation." If the one putting forth the strange and outlandish nonsense is unable to make their case from the scriptures they present, then that can be pointed out for what it is without being offensively obtuse.

Just my thoughts.

MM
How to make religious doctrine:
1. Read the Bible.
2. Develop an opinion about a religious subject.
3. Collect all the texts in the Bible that support your opinion. Catalogue these as your "Proof Texts".
4. Collect all the texts in the Bible the refute your opinion. Catalogue these as your "Problem Texts".
5. Create viable explanations/rationalizations "proving" that the "problem Texts":
5a. Don't really mean what they say
5b. Were for "them" specifically, and were never intended for "us" in 2021
5c. Were later inclusions to the Biblical text, and therefore aren't authoritative
5d. Are no longer required in the church (generally related to the definition of "that Perfect")
5e. Are symbolic in nature, and therefore not something to understood as "Literal".
5f. etc.
6. When you have accomplished the first 5 steps, publish a Theological book, presenting your Opinion, using your "Proof Texts" to Support / "Prove" your opinion. INCLUDING sections presenting your "Viable explanations" for any and all "Problem Texts", that will be raised as "Criticisms" of your opinion by folks with a DIFFERENT OPINION.
7. if your presentation is convincing enough, then start a denomination incorporating your opinion(s).

SImple as that.

Oh - and if your opinion changes, then just swap the Catalogues, and teach the opposite -
 
I am a little different but also the same.

I too have been in some strange situations from Africa to Haiti and Central America. I too have experienced demon activity and witch doctors operating.

I am different in that I did not keep my thoughts to myself because I knew what was FAKED and demonic. And yes, there was a couple of times that I was in a little bit of a pickle, but I knew that if I was true to the written Word of God, God would be true to me....and here I am 20 years later talking to you on a computer still standing up for the Word of God!
if i am in another man church i will not speak out. if i know the pastor i will talk to them about it. big problem we have with the phony word is . imo it ends up a doctrine slam my doctrine is true yours is phony/ strawman material . i had that used many times in carm when i discussed free will vs Calvinism. it got pretty intense . i am supposed to be general baptist by credentials . but i do not preach gen bapt doctrine i have been given the stink eye over a nmae.
in this post you and bob discussed he bowed out. i have been in asog churches had a great time . one of the things i do like about parts of the Pentecostals in a nut shell.. they will get more excited over a song over a word preached than lots of baptist. i dont agree %100 with asog pentc. lets face it there services .can be more spiritual than some baptist..
i have a bro n law has never raised his hands in worship that i am aware of . probally very seldom said amen... but he is rock solid .
if its wrong what ever the denom i will say its not right if asked. .

i listened to donnie swaggert *** (spelling ) **** at the end of his message he started saying thank God i am Pentecostal .. i am like really i thank God i am saved .the name tag will fall off going up or burn off going down.. i was introduced to my aunts pastor after her husband funeral . she told him i was a preacher he said o southern Baptist !!! i said no general end of conversation---- stink eye

this is more than i like to type the last thing i want to do is insult a bro or sister due to me not agreeing with a doctrine that is not salvation threatening.
 
How to make religious doctrine:
1. Read the Bible.
2. Develop an opinion about a religious subject.
3. Collect all the texts in the Bible that support your opinion. Catalogue these as your "Proof Texts".
4. Collect all the texts in the Bible the refute your opinion. Catalogue these as your "Problem Texts".
5. Create viable explanations/rationalizations "proving" that the "problem Texts":
5a. Don't really mean what they say
5b. Were for "them" specifically, and were never intended for "us" in 2021
5c. Were later inclusions to the Biblical text, and therefore aren't authoritative
5d. Are no longer required in the church (generally related to the definition of "that Perfect")
5e. Are symbolic in nature, and therefore not something to understood as "Literal".
5f. etc.
6. When you have accomplished the first 5 steps, publish a Theological book, presenting your Opinion, using your "Proof Texts" to Support / "Prove" your opinion. INCLUDING sections presenting your "Viable explanations" for any and all "Problem Texts", that will be raised as "Criticisms" of your opinion by folks with a DIFFERENT OPINION.
7. if your presentation is convincing enough, then start a denomination incorporating your opinion(s).

SImple as that.

Oh - and if your opinion changes, then just swap the Catalogues, and teach the opposite -
i agree with this
 
How to make religious doctrine:
1. Read the Bible.
2. Develop an opinion about a religious subject.
3. Collect all the texts in the Bible that support your opinion. Catalogue these as your "Proof Texts".
4. Collect all the texts in the Bible the refute your opinion. Catalogue these as your "Problem Texts".
5. Create viable explanations/rationalizations "proving" that the "problem Texts":
5a. Don't really mean what they say
5b. Were for "them" specifically, and were never intended for "us" in 2021
5c. Were later inclusions to the Biblical text, and therefore aren't authoritative
5d. Are no longer required in the church (generally related to the definition of "that Perfect")
5e. Are symbolic in nature, and therefore not something to understood as "Literal".
5f. etc.
6. When you have accomplished the first 5 steps, publish a Theological book, presenting your Opinion, using your "Proof Texts" to Support / "Prove" your opinion. INCLUDING sections presenting your "Viable explanations" for any and all "Problem Texts", that will be raised as "Criticisms" of your opinion by folks with a DIFFERENT OPINION.
7. if your presentation is convincing enough, then start a denomination incorporating your opinion(s).

SImple as that.

Oh - and if your opinion changes, then just swap the Catalogues, and teach the opposite -

Well, Bob, if that's been your personal experience with others in how they develop an understanding of what's written on a particular topic, then I'm afraid your experience is less than optimal. As scholars, we don't conduct ourselves in that manner. The rules for "interpretation" from the perspective of genuine, scholastic pursuits involves some very astute and well established rules. Out there in the world of religion, laymen and leaders alike violate the rules as a matter of routine. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all these denominations. Luther, Calvin and many others, had they adhered to the rules, they would never have allowed themselves to become the purveyors of the tragic and horrendous "replacement theology" buzz that is now becoming even more popular than before.

So, were you to surround yourself with those who do not dabble so abundantly in the many, many fallacies of pseudo studies for "interpretation," perhaps your outlook would be less glum. Not all mainstream doctrines are so riddled with error. The bottom line is, can you defend YOUR beliefs in the face of doubts and challenges, all without sinking into the same mire as those others?

In other words, it matters not that the denominational, bandwagon groupings exist and spout their doctrinal slogans so long as you and all the rest of us here exercise right and proper responsibility over what we individually choose to believe and convey to others. Emotive reactions only serve some other more base type of off-handed side-stepping rather than dealing with it all head-on. It's the difference between taking the high road versus the low road.

MM
 
As scholars, we don't conduct ourselves in that manner
i do believe that was sarcasm the whole problem with doctrine issues .it reminds of when both my neighbors had cattle with bulls. the 2 bulls would sound off at each other. more or less saying each one was more dominant . fact is were not going to change each other. only God can do that
 
Well, Bob, if that's been your personal experience with others in how they develop an understanding of what's written on a particular topic, then I'm afraid your experience is less than optimal. As scholars, we don't conduct ourselves in that manner. The rules for "interpretation" from the perspective of genuine, scholastic pursuits involves some very astute and well established rules. Out there in the world of religion, laymen and leaders alike violate the rules as a matter of routine. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all these denominations. Luther, Calvin and many others, had they adhered to the rules, they would never have allowed themselves to become the purveyors of the tragic and horrendous "replacement theology" buzz that is now becoming even more popular than before.

So, were you to surround yourself with those who do not dabble so abundantly in the many, many fallacies of pseudo studies for "interpretation," perhaps your outlook would be less glum. Not all mainstream doctrines are so riddled with error. The bottom line is, can you defend YOUR beliefs in the face of doubts and challenges, all without sinking into the same mire as those others?

In other words, it matters not that the denominational, bandwagon groupings exist and spout their doctrinal slogans so long as you and all the rest of us here exercise right and proper responsibility over what we individually choose to believe and convey to others. Emotive reactions only serve some other more base type of off-handed side-stepping rather than dealing with it all head-on. It's the difference between taking the high road versus the low road.

MM

Extremally well stated!
 
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