On Richness and Poverty

[KingJ]

Deuteronomy 8:18
But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

There you go again. Quoting OT promises to the Jews after you just said we are neither Jew nor gentile. You are suggesting / wishing perhaps that you were a Jew living BC....? Or how you previously twisted Paul's words into ''we are neither Jew or gentile, we are now ''super Jews''.

I can just imagine the Jews reaction to Jesus saying ''give expecting nothing in return'... . There is a world of difference between prosperity promises NT and OT.

The only '''''promises'''' of prosperity to us are Matt 6:26 and Psalm 37:23.

 

[KingJ]

It's "disgusting" to separate out financial prosperity with the whole prosperity ball of wax as if it is something shameful. What's shameful is being ruled by the love of money, just as it is to disdain it. God promises prosperity in every arena. .

Pursuing the things of the world when we are to leave the world is on par with being ruled by the love of money.

Can you imagine Malachi saying to the Jews ''if you tithe 10% God will not open the windows of heaven for you ''.

Christians would walk to the promised land if there was no milk and honey. Jews would not. World of difference. Mixing the two is disgusting. Teaching the prior to motivate us is disgusting. Holding God to ''promises to the Jews'' after He just gave His life for us is disgusting.

 

[aha]

As mentioned earlier, the Poverty question is becoming a big of a question that my mind can’t accommodate : )

Although since you asked, I came to realize that all issues, even how big it is, can be reduced to simplest terms....
Like a long mathematical equation reduce to simplest equation : )

In the same manner: “all the laws and prophets is summarized to the “Great Commandment"

In the same manner: that poverty, from an individual, his household, his community, or even the nation where he belongs to, we can learn from what the Teacher had said:
Matthew 6:33
“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you”

That is: may it be a question of individual, his household, his community, or even his nation...
What follows is more a pattern I see on the mentioned relationships....

Seems to be a hierarchy, and yet, seems there is none: An individual, his household, his community, his nation: AND YET, a nation is governed by an individual…. by a king or a president…. the burden is more on them (that how I see it, all of us, have roles, an individual, a student, a teacher, a ruler ) : thus, Peter advice as well: “honor the king”
1 Peter 2: 17
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Thus, having said that: Seems to be a hierarchy, and yet, seems there is none

the question seems easier for me now to consider : )

You mention various forces of antagonism that would impede individual action such as political, economic, or natural intervention; is it possible that the forces of men that would hinder historically, will provide the wretched catalyst for chronic poverty a great deal more than individual praxeology?

Seems "insurmountable" situation that afflict the "community of man" and yet, "individual" great, yes, blessed, men and women, rises up against such situations....

When nature strikes, is it also possible that if the unjust apparatus of law laden in place by interventionist systems did not exist, that devastation itself would be vastly overwhelmed by the ethical response of free people in the confine of Godly benevolence?

Yes indeed, an affliction to "community of man", can be led by "individual" what more a "community" response....

Though subject to the organized arbitrary forces of men, and also strategic to obey Paul’s council to prevent offenses, do you also believe that our benign physical action coupled with spiritual warfare, public ethical stances, and education can displace the compulsory status quo that would chronically manufacture chronic poverty?

Yes, as mentioned, individual, as well as "nations", "community of man" can learn much from what the Teacher is teaching:
“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you”

 

[Euphemia]

1. No. I just know what the 'promise' to me is and who I am in Christ.
2. No its not. Example: The Jews were promised Israel, a land of milk and honey. We were not.
3. Agreed. Gal 3 is crystal clear. This however has absolutely nothing to do with promises to the Jews.
4. You previously said Abraham was our spiritual father and as a result all promises to the Jews apply to us now. That and what you saying now are different statements. The above is scriptural. Of course as long as ''father' is a metaphor.

1. Guess what? Me too!!!
2. Our promised land is the Kingdom! We will rule and reign with Him! We live post-cross!
3. That same promise is to all, including Jews! We are all one in Jesus Christ, and all inheritors of everything Jesus has, as His co-heirs. Yay!
4. I haven;t made any conflicting comments. We have all of the promises made to Israel that still apply, which have to do with faith in the Messiah, which many OT saints had. Out of the faith of Abraham, we spring! Even we Gentiles are part of the multitudes promised to him! Hallelujah!

 

[Euphemia]

Pursuing the things of the world when we are to leave the world is on par with being ruled by the love of money.

I guess it all depends on what you think pursuing is. God is all about bringing us things that please us. He loves us and loves the things we care about, and He enjoys blessing us with those things---even little things!

Can you imagine Malachi saying to the Jews ''if you tithe 10% God will not open the windows of heaven for you ''.

I don' get your point. Why would he say that, exactly?

Christians would walk to the promised land if there was no milk and honey. Jews would not. World of difference. Mixing the two is disgusting. Teaching the prior to motivate us is disgusting. Holding God to ''promises to the Jews'' after He just gave His life for us is disgusting.

You make no sense! That's disgusting.

 

[Euphemia]

There you go again. Quoting OT promises to the Jews after you just said we are neither Jew nor gentile. You are suggesting / wishing perhaps that you were a Jew living BC....? Or how you previously twisted Paul's words into ''we are neither Jew or gentile, we are now ''super Jews''.

I can just imagine the Jews reaction to Jesus saying ''give expecting nothing in return'... . There is a world of difference between prosperity promises NT and OT.

The only '''''promises'''' of prosperity to us are Matt 6:26 and Psalm 37:23.

Nonsense! All passages regarding the full sphere of prosperity (and there are LOADS of them) are ours. Do you actually black out parts of the bible?

 

[Major]

Pursuing the things of the world when we are to leave the world is on par with being ruled by the love of money.

Can you imagine Malachi saying to the Jews ''if you tithe 10% God will not open the windows of heaven for you ''.

Christians would walk to the promised land if there was no milk and honey. Jews would not. World of difference. Mixing the two is disgusting. Teaching the prior to motivate us is disgusting. Holding God to ''promises to the Jews'' after He just gave His life for us is disgusting.

KingJ, I agree with you. This is something I have spoken out about several times. In the prosperity gospel, also known as the "Word of Faith", if one reads and follow their directions, one will see that the the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer.

Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. It also makes out the Holy Spirit to be a "force" that can be tapped into so that we can tell God what we want Him to do.
That action makes our God out to be a Cosmic Santa Clause. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will.

The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them because their message was not Biblical.

 

[Major]

I have owned and driven 100 dollar beaters to clasic bmw racers to pick up trucks and so forth. I drive what I desire to drive or what I enjoy and like. I have had a hand full of vehicles simply given to me by God through other Christians when I needed something else.
I drove them and enjoyed them.........and passed them along.

It is not what you have but how you came to have it that matters.
It is not if you are prosperous but how you became to prosper that matters.
It is not about all the money you have but where is the heart ? For riches are no more sin then feeding the poor UNLESS the riches are the bigest thing in your heart or most important then you have problems..........

Priorities..........this makes all the difference.......Biblical Prosperity...when Christians hear this they FIRST OR AUTOMATICALLY THINK MONEY.........this is not INCORRECT HOWEVER IT IS IN COMPLETE.......for.....Money or finances is only a little piece of TRUE BIBLICAL PROSPERITY..

God Bless
Jim

IMO.........There is no such thing as a “prosperity gospel.” There is only one gospel and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Through Jesus’ finished work on the cross, you can depend on.

Galatians 1:8-9...........
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”

Prosperity preachers all over this land twist and take verses totally out of context it to make it say that Jesus died to make us materially rich and not spiritually blessed. Paul writes in Ephesians 1:3...........

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

If there was any place Paul could have said, “Jesus has blessed us with every material blessing,” that would have been it.
Romans 15:25-27.
"At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem bringing aid to the saints. For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make some contribution for the poor among the saints at Jerusalem. For they were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have come to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to be of service to them in material blessings."

So there you have it. Scripture interprets scripture. Jesus become poor so we may become spiritually RICH and BLESSED in His work on the cross. God promised Israel Himself. We are heirs of that promise. As heirs, we too receive the fullness and richness of God’s spiritual blessings through Christ! This is the gospel that Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile. This is the gospel that the Apostles preached. This is gospel that the early church fathers preached. This is the gospel that the reformers preached.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The promise to Abraham was many blessed descendants. You cannot change that.

You are having difficulty with the blessings part because you want to see it as promises you can claim and not for what it is. Many descendants cannot be claimed.... just like riches / claiming land of milk and honey as Euphemia's post # 123 suggested (which ignited this whole discussion).

We can be one of the many descendants / fulfill this promise by obeying the law BC (Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people) / being in-Christ AD . The blessing in Gal 3:14 is union with God. We partake of the promise (to Abraham) when in union with God. By faith we receive Jesus. The promise of the Spirit. Not...the promise of the land of milk and honey....riches on par with Abraham.

Read Gal 3 as it is written. It is disgusting and shameful to think Gal 3:14 has anything to do with promises of prosperity. It is the greatest promise that exists!! It is the promise of union with God through Jesus!!...the very reason Abraham was chosen.

Brother this is not at all 100 percent true. There is more to it then many decendents,
Any of us can quote scripture and show you but you wont except it so all any one can do is pray that the Lord opens up your eyes.
God Bless KJ
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

1. No. I just know what the 'promise' to me is and who I am in Christ.
2. No its not. Example: The Jews were promised Israel, a land of milk and honey. We were not.
3. Agreed. Gal 3 is crystal clear. This however has absolutely nothing to do with promises to the Jews.
4. You previously said Abraham was our spiritual father and as a result all promises to the Jews apply to us now. That and what you saying now are different statements. The above is scriptural. Of course as long as ''father' is a metaphor.

Brother we all have our promised land or our own piece of the garden but it does not just happen. This take a close walk with God and actually living the way His word says and having Faith for more then being saved and knowing what His word says.

So let me ask you this.....Since God grafted you into His tree through Christ Jesus and has made you one of His family members (adopted) this means His promises are for those who are Jews only and not for you ? If this be the case then Acts 10:34 would have to be a lie according to you. For it says...God is NO respector persons.

God Bless KJ
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

KingJ, I agree with you. This is something I have spoken out about several times. In the prosperity gospel, also known as the "Word of Faith", if one reads and follow their directions, one will see that the the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer.


Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. It also makes out the Holy Spirit to be a "force" that can be tapped into so that we can tell God what we want Him to do.

That action makes our God out to be a Cosmic Santa Clause. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will.


The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them because their message was not Biblical.

Brother no disrespect here but this is not 100 percent true......
It is not taught that the Holy Spirit must do as we will. That is not even close.
It is taught that when you walk according to His word and you do your part you can be confident that He will Do HIS part........BUT where you have it wrong is a believer confessing by or through FAITH these things and you seem to take this as a believer willing or demanding God.

No Brother it is not about us and never will be but if we do not have enough confidence in His word through Faith then we do not see the RESULTS GOD PROMISED TO THOSE WHO walk in His ways..or uprightly and so forth.

The error is not in what is being taught - the error stems from Christians who have no understanding in this and have their minds already made up and twist what is being taught ( not all on purpose ) but never the less from lack of knowledge and understanding.
Those who knock any kind of prosperity teaching always seem to go at money, money, money, and finances is but a little tiny piece of true Biblical Prosperity.

Now then Major I know we do not see eye to eye on this and that to me is not big deal for I know I am saved and I truly believe you are saved and walking in His ways and I know we both are above taking our conversations as attacks for we be just simple minded talken with each other. So please do not read anything into this other then two brothers talking about things of God sitten on the porch.

God Bless You Major
Have a wonderful week
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

IMO.........There is no such thing as a “prosperity gospel.” There is only one gospel and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Through Jesus’ finished work on the cross, you can depend on.

Galatians 1:8-9...........
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”

Prosperity preachers all over this land twist and take verses totally out of context it to make it say that Jesus died to make us materially rich and not spiritually blessed. Paul writes in Ephesians 1:3...........

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

If there was any place Paul could have said, “Jesus has blessed us with every material blessing,” that would have been it.
Romans 15:25-27.
"At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem bringing aid to the saints. For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make some contribution for the poor among the saints at Jerusalem. For they were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have come to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to be of service to them in material blessings."

So there you have it. Scripture interprets scripture. Jesus become poor so we may become spiritually RICH and BLESSED in His work on the cross. God promised Israel Himself. We are heirs of that promise. As heirs, we too receive the fullness and richness of God’s spiritual blessings through Christ! This is the gospel that Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile. This is the gospel that the Apostles preached. This is gospel that the early church fathers preached. This is the gospel that the reformers preached.

Blessings Major,
I replied in another post in here that should answer to this as well.
Hope your days have been getting better.
God Bless
Jim
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/on-richness-and-poverty.42665/page-12#post-409636

 

[Major]

Brother no disrespect here but this is not 100 percent true......
It is not taught that the Holy Spirit must do as we will. That is not even close.
It is taught that when you walk according to His word and you do your part you can be confident that He will Do HIS part........BUT where you have it wrong is a believer confessing by or through FAITH these things and you seem to take this as a believer willing or demanding God.

No Brother it is not about us and never will be but if we do not have enough confidence in His word through Faith then we do not see the RESULTS GOD PROMISED TO THOSE WHO walk in His ways..or uprightly and so forth.

The error is not in what is being taught - the error stems from Christians who have no understanding in this and have their minds already made up and twist what is being taught ( not all on purpose ) but never the less from lack of knowledge and understanding.
Those who knock any kind of prosperity teaching always seem to go at money, money, money, and finances is but a little tiny piece of true Biblical Prosperity.

Now then Major I know we do not see eye to eye on this and that to me is not big deal for I know I am saved and I truly believe you are saved and walking in His ways and I know we both are above taking our conversations as attacks for we be just simple minded talken with each other. So please do not read anything into this other then two brothers talking about things of God sitten on the porch.

God Bless You Major
Have a wonderful week
Jim

No problem with me. I think that probably every time this conversation comes up we will be on opposite sides Jim.

IMO, I am saying that there is no such thing as Biblical Prosperity Gospel. There is such a thing as "Another Gospel" which is being propagated as a Bible teaching but there is in fact NO SUCH THING.

This "different gospel" teaches that God provides rewards, including personal happiness, financial wealth and physical health, for believers who have sufficient faith. This, "Another Gospel" theology developed in America in the last century and has been called a “baptized form of capitalism.”

Galatians 1:6 ........
'I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.'

1 Timothy 6:5-8 ........
'Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.'

Those preachers of the prosperity gospel are certainly perverting the true gospel of Christ Jesus. But Paul says there isn't another gospel, but only one true gospel of Jesus which is exactly my contention.

John 10:10 .........
"I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.'

The preachers of the prosperity gospel will look at this Bible verse and twist it to their liking. But what did Jesus really mean when He said He came to give life more abundantly? Was He talking about worldly possessions? Is that what we really think that God had in mind???????????

Well, if you study through the whole council of God, you will see that to be a true Christian in this world you will go through persecution and tribulation as seen in John 16:33; Acts 14:22; 1 Thess. 3:4; 1 Peter 4:12, and that you are to use what you have to help the poor. Now does that sound like worldly prosperity and abundance? Of course not. No, Christ was talking about the abundance of His Spirit in your life, giving you peace and joy that no worldly possession can give you. He was also pointing to the abundant life that He will give us in His heavenly kingdom.

 

[Ravindran]

No problem with me. I think that probably every time this conversation comes up we will be on opposite sides Jim.

IMO, I am saying that there is no such thing as Biblical Prosperity Gospel. There is such a thing as "Another Gospel" which is being propagated as a Bible teaching but there is in fact NO SUCH THING.

This "different gospel" teaches that God provides rewards, including personal happiness, financial wealth and physical health, for believers who have sufficient faith. This, "Another Gospel" theology developed in America in the last century and has been called a “baptized form of capitalism.”

Galatians 1:6 ........
'I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.'

1 Timothy 6:5-8 ........
'Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.'

Those preachers of the prosperity gospel are certainly perverting the true gospel of Christ Jesus. But Paul says there isn't another gospel, but only one true gospel of Jesus which is exactly my contention.

John 10:10 .........
"I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.'

The preachers of the prosperity gospel will look at this Bible verse and twist it to their liking. But what did Jesus really mean when He said He came to give life more abundantly? Was He talking about worldly possessions? Is that what we really think that God had in mind???????????

Well, if you study through the whole council of God, you will see that to be a true Christian in this world you will go through persecution and tribulation as seen in John 16:33; Acts 14:22; 1 Thess. 3:4; 1 Peter 4:12, and that you are to use what you have to help the poor. Now does that sound like worldly prosperity and abundance? Of course not. No, Christ was talking about the abundance of His Spirit in your life, giving you peace and joy that no worldly possession can give you. He was also pointing to the abundant life that He will give us in His heavenly kingdom.

Brother I don't have much to disagree here.. But I have been trying to keep up with the post.. It has grown pretty large!!

I think we should differentiate between 2 things.. Having riches and seeking riches.. Seeking riches is clearly evil. Bible is black and white about it.. But that does not mean having riches is a bad thing or evil thing. Certainly, it is going to be more tempting for the person.. It is going to pose more challenges for the spiritual growth. That does mean, Christians should forsake richness. If the Christian puts the hope on God and remembers that everything is from heaven above, I don't think there is anything evil in this..

 

[Euphemia]

KingJ, I agree with you. This is something I have spoken out about several times. In the prosperity gospel, also known as the "Word of Faith", if one reads and follow their directions, one will see that the the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer.

Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. It also makes out the Holy Spirit to be a "force" that can be tapped into so that we can tell God what we want Him to do.
That action makes our God out to be a Cosmic Santa Clause. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will.

The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them because their message was not Biblical.

Your understanding is not correct, and is only an opinion based on not knowing what true Word of Faith is really all about. Once again, I am not involved in the "movement", but I completely concur with people who teach what real faith in the word of God is all about.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

No problem with me. I think that probably every time this conversation comes up we will be on opposite sides Jim.

IMO, I am saying that there is no such thing as Biblical Prosperity Gospel. There is such a thing as "Another Gospel" which is being propagated as a Bible teaching but there is in fact NO SUCH THING.

This "different gospel" teaches that God provides rewards, including personal happiness, financial wealth and physical health, for believers who have sufficient faith. This, "Another Gospel" theology developed in America in the last century and has been called a “baptized form of capitalism.”

Galatians 1:6 ........
'I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.'

1 Timothy 6:5-8 ........
'Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.'

Those preachers of the prosperity gospel are certainly perverting the true gospel of Christ Jesus. But Paul says there isn't another gospel, but only one true gospel of Jesus which is exactly my contention.

John 10:10 .........
"I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.'

The preachers of the prosperity gospel will look at this Bible verse and twist it to their liking. But what did Jesus really mean when He said He came to give life more abundantly? Was He talking about worldly possessions? Is that what we really think that God had in mind???????????

Well, if you study through the whole council of God, you will see that to be a true Christian in this world you will go through persecution and tribulation as seen in John 16:33; Acts 14:22; 1 Thess. 3:4; 1 Peter 4:12, and that you are to use what you have to help the poor. Now does that sound like worldly prosperity and abundance? Of course not. No, Christ was talking about the abundance of His Spirit in your life, giving you peace and joy that no worldly possession can give you. He was also pointing to the abundant life that He will give us in His heavenly kingdom.

Major helping the poor is a good thing BUT NOT tyhe only thing we as christians have finances for and as Jesus said....we will always have poor people around. I do not know about you brother but I need things here not in Heaven. If I need to feed the homelss I need stoves asnd dishes and this and that.........abundance in heaven wont cut it here in the now.

Major I truly wish you would stiop saying prosperity gospel.. The only people who use this term is thoser who have not clue what is being taught. It is Biblical prosperity and once again MONEY is only a little tiny piece of this prosperity.

Other then that............hows the weather these days ? Getting warmer I hope.
Have a blessed day and I am looking forward to hearing from you once again. I respect your thoughts wisdom and enjoy going back and forth with you. The cool thing is we even agree at times. lol
God Bless You my Friend
JIm

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Brother I don't have much to disagree here.. But I have been trying to keep up with the post.. It has grown pretty large!!


I think we should differentiate between 2 things.. Having riches and seeking riches.. Seeking riches is clearly evil. Bible is black and white about it.. But that does not mean having riches is a bad thing or evil thing. Certainly, it is going to be more tempting for the person.. It is going to pose more challenges for the spiritual growth. That does mean, Christians should forsake richness. If the Christian puts the hope on God and remembers that everything is from heaven above, I don't think there is anything evil in this..

Ravindran Hello,
Very well said and I would like to add to what you said with no disrespect meant at all. Just wanted to use what you said as a starting place.

Some folks do not grasp that God does not just pour out wealth on some one with out first preparing them. Let me explain. God knows the hearts of all of us and Her knows our motivation behind every thing we say and do.

Within Biblical prosperity or prospering GODS way and BY God and Through God there is seasons of spiritual growth and renewing your entire being unto His ways. For this reply I am speaking on finaces simply because this is all any one seems to be seeing in this thread.

God will start you off small and teach you to be faithful in the little and build your faith in this. Hey living by faith is what we are all called to do but it is NOT as easy as some make it out to be. Wait until God stops the flow of things coming in and begins to build your faith. Total dependency on Him.

Try having to trust God for everything from tooth paste to food to personal items to shoe laces to rent and electric and so forth. Standing on Faith for days or weeks collecting cans and bottles and then God hands you a 20 dollar bill here and 2 twenties over there and so forth.

Then back to believing and the electric gets paid right before shut off and back to believing. This will separate the Believers from the winers real fast. A few times I got to the point where I simply did not want to live this faith for life way and just allow me to go back to work and have a normal job like every one else. CLOSED DOOR>

Any way I learned to tithe and seed off of every bottle and can. A lot of times I would double or triple my tithe to only see God multiply my cans and bottle by 8 times as much as the prior day over and over again. Try taking 30 to 50 dollars of cans and bottles to the store...walking....That glass adds up fast.

I know this is long but my point is some where in here. Long story short........by the time you get up to having the wealth every one is speaking about in here........You did your time and you have learned WHO YOU SOURCE IS ALWAYS...and you do not forget where GOD brought you from.....

The wealth does not tempt you nor causer you to stumble or sin...........Now then if such person begins to push God and His ways aside and begins to slowly stop reading His word and so forth then yes.........this person is on slippery ground and probably will fall hard............

I said all this about those harping on God only gives you wealth to feed the poor and orphans.....God gives us wealth because He loves Us and He allow us to take part in financing His kingdom and taking care of others as well. It is not written in His word to pay for the groceries of the person who forgot there wallet at home BUT we do it any way because it is the love of God. Orphans and widows is only a small EXAMPLE of things to do in His name.

Oh well I never did get to my point but this will work for now.
God Bless
Jim

 

[KingJ]

So let me ask you this.....Since God grafted you into His tree through Christ Jesus and has made you one of His family members (adopted) this means His promises are for those who are Jews only and not for you ? If this be the case then Acts 10:34 would have to be a lie according to you. For it says...God is NO respector persons. God Bless KJ
Jim

Now this is a good argument Jim. Amen, God is no respecter of persons. You have to bear this in mind with the fact that we have moved on from the old covenant.

Then just pure simple common sense. The Jews received signs, wonders and miracles from God that have never been seen in any other nation. The Jews had 1 of 12 tribes in full time ministry. The Jews had the ark of the covenant. The Jews had a temple with high priests able to go beyond the veil and hear directly from God. Almost every generation of Jews had a prophet from God with undeniable power from above. Was this God being a respecter of persons? No. It is simply the application of different covenants. The Jews were literally surrounded by enemies wanting them dead. We are not. The Jews never knew / grasped God's love on the cross as we do.

Like I said to you ''If I took a bullet for you today and then tomorrow you wonder if I will share my sandwich with you'' You are clearly not thinking right. Jews needed promises. We don't. We walk 'knowing'. We have / must move on. If anything I would think the Jews BC have a greater argument for us having God's preferential treatment .

 

[Major]

Major helping the poor is a good thing BUT NOT tyhe only thing we as christians have finances for and as Jesus said....we will always have poor people around. I do not know about you brother but I need things here not in Heaven. If I need to feed the homelss I need stoves asnd dishes and this and that.........abundance in heaven wont cut it here in the now.

Major I truly wish you would stiop saying prosperity gospel.. The only people who use this term is thoser who have not clue what is being taught. It is Biblical prosperity and once again MONEY is only a little tiny piece of this prosperity.

Other then that............hows the weather these days ? Getting warmer I hope.
Have a blessed day and I am looking forward to hearing from you once again. I respect your thoughts wisdom and enjoy going back and forth with you. The cool thing is we even agree at times. lol
God Bless You my Friend
JIm

It is very hot and humid in Central Fl. Thank God we are getting afternoon showers!

What would be the term you would like to see used to identify those who are involved in the Prosperity teaching?
"Word of Faith". ......."Name it and Claim It"......."Kenneth Hagin Followers" ....."Health & Wealth"...."Positive Confession"?

Jim, I have been around a long time and the fact is that I truly do understand the message that is being propagated which is why I speak against it so much. You and I can talk all we want however that does not change the basic teaching of the Word of Faith or Name it and Claim it crowd. It, they, have a faulty view of the relationship between God and man. Simply put, if the prosperity gospel is correct, grace becomes obsolete, God becomes irrelevant, and man is the measure of all things.

 

[Major]

Your understanding is not correct, and is only an opinion based on not knowing what true Word of Faith is really all about.

My sister, this is not my first rodeo and I assure that because you do not agree with me does not mean that I am incorrect on my understanding of the Word of Faith teaching.

And my I also say that there is no such thing as saying......"I am not involved in the movement"...BUT I agree with their teaching.

Search the Scriptures and you will find in Proverbs 24:12.....
"If you f faint in the day of adversity, Your strength is small. Deliver those who are drawn toward death,
And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, "Surely we did not know this," Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man i according to his deeds".

That reminds me of Rev. 3 when Jesus speaks to the churches about being luke warm.