On Richness and Poverty

JohnP said:
I sense a lot of judgement in your posts aimed at others, not self. "You drive a fancy car? Well, you can't be a good Christian!" You may not intend it to come across that way, but that is how I am perceiving it. It is about what is in your heart, and how you live your life, not what you own.

No matter what you own, it can cause envy in someone. You say that you will never buy a "rubbish" car. "So a clean and well maintained car." What about the person sitting at the bus stop, waiting an hour in the rain for the bus as you drive past in your "clean and well maintained" car? Could they not envy you for having that when they have none?
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I think I mentioned this before - this is a fine like we are walking.
For example - I get to drive the best car in the world, easily and hands down the winner in any contest.
I do not believe this makes me a bad person, this car did not cost me the same money as a Ferrari or any other fancy sports car.
I do not believe because of the car I drive I am a better person, but there is no way I share it with others either as this car belong to my family.
If someone comes to me and says, "yes, but do you know how good this car makes me look." the first thing I say is, "but how can that be." Something of lesser value cannot make something of higher value look better, so how can a car make you better, or even to look better. Saying that implies the car is of higher value than yourself as a human being, and that is impossible, no number of cars/phones/gadgets or whatever can add to the value of any single human being, even the ones considered as least who walks this earth. For a simple reason, each person was bought at a great price, paid by Christ for each of us.
So cars/gadgets/things can never take higher place as any human, if it does, that person thinking this way is simply deceived by the lies of the devil himself.
Therefore, I believe that those walking in the Kingdom of God today here on earth, will spend any resources on human life far easier than on material things. I mean, what is the Kingdom of God about then.
 
Arrie03 said:
I think I mentioned this before - this is a fine like we are walking.
For example - I get to drive the best car in the world, easily and hands down the winner in any contest.
I do not believe this makes me a bad person, this car did not cost me the same money as a Ferrari or any other fancy sports car.
I do not believe because of the car I drive I am a better person, but there is no way I share it with others either as this car belong to my family.
If someone comes to me and says, "yes, but do you know how good this car makes me look." the first thing I say is, "but how can that be." Something of lesser value cannot make something of higher value look better, so how can a car make you better, or even to look better. Saying that implies the car is of higher value than yourself as a human being, and that is impossible, no number of cars/phones/gadgets or whatever can add to the value of any single human being, even the ones considered as least who walks this earth. For a simple reason, each person was bought at a great price, paid by Christ for each of us.
So cars/gadgets/things can never take higher place as any human, if it does, that person thinking this way is simply deceived by the lies of the devil himself.
Therefore, I believe that those walking in the Kingdom of God today here on earth, will spend any resources on human life far easier than on material things. I mean, what is the Kingdom of God about then.
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I bet it is not one once better than my 2003 For Tarus!!!
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Machine Gun Preacher is a 2011 action biopic film about Sam Childers, a former gang biker turned preacher and defender of African orphans. The movie was based on Childers' book Another Man's War.[3] It was written byJason Keller, directed by Marc Forster, and stars Gerard Butler, Michelle Monaghan and Michael Shannon.

The film tells the story of Childers and his efforts to save the children ofSouth Sudan in collaboration with the Sudan People's Liberation Army(SPLA) against the atrocities of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA).

This is how you see the hearts of many pastors ? Why ?


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Mmmm - South Sudan orphans.
Read this:
http://gatewaynews.co.za/courageous...-in-sudan-and-braves-dangers-to-save-orphans/

Do not know the mentioned movie though.
 
Major said:
I bet it is not one once better than my 2003 For Tarus!!!
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Hi Major.
You mean Ford Taurus?
Actually, mine is a car the my Father in heaven gave me in 2006. See, as I said, the best in the world.:)
I did not want to mention the make, but it's a Ford, 2004 model.
 
Arrie03 said:
Hi Major.
You mean Ford Taurus?
Actually, mine is a car the my Father in heaven gave me in 2006. See, as I said, the best in the world.:)
I did not want to mention the make, but it's a Ford, 2004 model.
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I have owned and driven 100 dollar beaters to clasic bmw racers to pick up trucks and so forth. I drive what I desire to drive or what I enjoy and like. I have had a hand full of vehicles simply given to me by God through other Christians when I needed something else.
I drove them and enjoyed them.........and passed them along.

It is not what you have but how you came to have it that matters.
It is not if you are prosperous but how you became to prosper that matters.
It is not about all the money you have but where is the heart ? For riches are no more sin then feeding the poor UNLESS the riches are the bigest thing in your heart or most important then you have problems..........

Priorities..........this makes all the difference.......Biblical Prosperity...when Christians hear this they FIRST OR AUTOMATICALLY THINK MONEY.........this is not INCORRECT HOWEVER IT IS IN COMPLETE.......for.....Money or finances is only a little piece of TRUE BIBLICAL PROSPERITY..

God Bless
Jim
 
Arrie03 said:
(y)
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Why Thank Ya !
Hey tell me now.........would this not be the answer to those crowded boat ramps and know it all people who simply can not figure out boat ramp procedures 101 ?
Oh and if this is what I desire to drive then The Father will help me get it BUT HE WONT PAY FOR MY TICKET rofl
IMG_20150210_031709.JPG
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Why Thank Ya !
Hey tell me now.........would this not be the answer to those crowded boat ramps and know it all people who simply can not figure out boat ramp procedures 101 ?
Oh and if this is what I desire to drive then The Father will help me get it BUT HE WONT PAY FOR MY TICKET rofl
View attachment 1784
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I can see a problem if you live close to the sea.
I'm not really a boat person though - I tend to fish from the side. I tend to want to keep my breakfast where it does me good, as intended.
 
aha said:
Good Virtue invites wealth and riches …. in the same manner that bad vices invites poverty...

as I see it: that is an individual action….

Poverty can be not an individual action … it can be a failure of community of man….of a nation warring against nations, of poor governance, of an economy design, of seasonal/weather changes affecting harvest/agriculture….

In Richness and in Poverty…. in whatever situations we have: we are conquerors....

richness may invite us to worry/temptations... in the same manner that poverty can invite us to worry/temptation….

in whatever situations we have: we are more than conquerors:
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aha

I believe your perspective to presuppose that individual action will pivot to prosperity or poverty to be absolutely sound; for it is ultimately individual praxeology “purposeful action” that congeals to prosperous or impoverishing outcomes when that which hinders is not present to obstruct. For our knowledge, our judgment, our diligence and our determination to achieve certain ends will discover the financial or monetary dichotomy to either side.

You mention various forces of antagonism that would impede individual action such as political, economic, or natural intervention; is it possible that the forces of men that would hinder historically, will provide the wretched catalyst for chronic poverty a great deal more than individual praxeology?

When nature strikes, is it also possible that if the unjust apparatus of law laden in place by interventionist systems did not exist, that devastation itself would be vastly overwhelmed by the ethical response of free people in the confine of Godly benevolence?

Though subject to the organized arbitrary forces of men, and also strategic to obey Paul’s council to prevent offenses, do you also believe that our benign physical action coupled with spiritual warfare, public ethical stances, and education can displace the compulsory status quo that would chronically manufacture chronic poverty?

Yet I ask not in the confines of prophetical prediction, but in the confines of ethical obligatory action.
 
Analogous dilemma

What of “Sharon the Christian innovator” who tithes faithfully, also is an extraordinary executive who has innovated a new product with global success which improves living conditions all over the world and receives a salary of 10 million dollars a year.

If she keeps 90 percent to herself, is she then a “sinner of excess?”

What if Sharon keeps 90 percent, the whole 9 million; but personally allocates 1 million to her person, and allocates 8 million into a bank for financial leverage to innovate further the prosperity and elimination of poverty for millions more?

Would she still be a sinner of excess to have 1 million dollars for self expenditure; after all her 8 million in innovation is eliminating poverty with incredible effect?

Also by this successful strategy she make the following year 20 million dollars which thrashes poverty even more all over the world, then only to repeat the process to double her salary, is she still a sinner of excess?

Also is it possible that her 1 or 2 million dollars will also provide the ethical fuel that empowers many others in society by measures of voluntary exchange to also be highly benefitted with prosperity?

If it could be discernible that “successful property ownership” operating in a non-interventionist free market economy can dissolve poverty, would it then be a sin to eliminate ethical property ownership strategies?

What if organized compulsion manufactures poverty all over the world and by regulatory plots those in power swindle conventional benevolence from those who would receive it?

What if owning ethical property was the key to shredding compulsion that would further poverty?

What if owning ethical property is scriptural for mankind and only despotic men provide the catalyst of destruction to take it away on immoral grounds?
 
Great Fiction said:
Analogous dilemma


What of “Sharon the Christian innovator” who tithes faithfully, also is an extraordinary executive who has innovated a new product with global success which improves living conditions all over the world and receives a salary of 10 million dollars a year.


If she keeps 90 percent to herself, is she then a “sinner of excess?”


What if Sharon keeps 90 percent, the whole 9 million; but personally allocates 1 million to her person, and allocates 8 million into a bank for financial leverage to innovate further the prosperity and elimination of poverty for millions more?


Would she still be a sinner of excess to have 1 million dollars for self expenditure; after all her 8 million in innovation is eliminating poverty with incredible effect?


Also by this successful strategy she make the following year 20 million dollars which thrashes poverty even more all over the world, then only to repeat the process to double her salary, is she still a sinner of excess?


Also is it possible that her 1 or 2 million dollars will also provide the ethical fuel that empowers many others in society by measures of voluntary exchange to also be highly benefitted with prosperity?


If it could be discernible that “successful property ownership” operating in a non-interventionist free market economy can dissolve poverty, would it then be a sin to eliminate ethical property ownership strategies?


What if organized compulsion manufactures poverty all over the world and by regulatory plots those in power swindle conventional benevolence from those who would receive it?


What if owning ethical property was the key to shredding compulsion that would further poverty?


What if owning ethical property is scriptural for mankind and only despotic men provide the catalyst of destruction to take it away on immoral grounds?
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When I get my 150 million here is how it will break down.
Tithe off of the entire 150 million
Pay the tax's on the 150 million
What ever is left will be divided as such.
2 or 3 million in bank for me and the rest sown into the ministries God leads me to sow into.

Now with my 2 or 3 million I would pay off all of my bills and families bills and some friends who are struggling. I would have a very blessed time helping anyone the Father brought into my path to help and place a nice chunk of it away for living and ministry. Oh and I wont buy a Ferrari for they are to slow. rofl....More like a white fusion for a very special friend and the truck of my choice. Probably in the early to mid 70's because that is what I like and enjoy.

It is easy to say what you would give when it is big numbers and you do not have it yet but if you can tithe and seed when you are collecting bottles and cans from dumpsters for 10 cents on the can, well you can tithe and seed in any income level.
God Bless
Jim
 
Euphemia said:
God's promises made to anyone concerning God's goodness to His people is for all of us.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work.

2 Corinthians 1:19-20
For Jesus Christ, the Son of God, does not waver between “Yes” and “No.” He is the one whom Silas, Timothy, and I preached to you, and as God’s ultimate “Yes,” he always does what he says. 20 For all of God’s promises have been fulfilled in Christ with a resounding “Yes!” And through Christ, our “Amen” (which means “Yes”) ascends to God for his glory.

Joshua 23:14b
...Deep in your hearts you know that every promise of the Lord your God has come true. Not a single one has failed!

Psalm 89:34
No, I will not break my covenant;
I will not take back a single word I said.
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The promise to Abraham was many blessed descendants.

Gen 17:6 I will give you a lot of descendants, and in the future they will become great nations. Some of them will even be kings. 7 I will always keep the promise (singular) I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God. 8 I will give you and them the land in which you are now a foreigner (Israel) I will give the whole land of Canaan to your family forever, and I will be their God. 9 Abraham, you and all future members of your family (Jews) must promise to obey me. 10-11 As the sign that you are keeping this promise, you must circumcise every man and boy in your family. 12-13 From now on, your family must circumcise every baby boy when he is eight days old. You must even circumcise any man or boy you have as a slave, both those born in your homes and those you buy from foreigners. This will be a sign that my promise to you will last forever. 14 Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people.

2 Tim 3:16 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. 2 Cor 1:19 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. Joshua 23:14 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. Why are so blatantly twisting scripture? Do you have a scripture that supports your belief that the promises to the Jews are ours and that Abraham is our spiritual father?
 
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KingJ said:
You did not answer the question.

The question was ''what promise was made to Abraham?''. The answer is there for everyone to read in Gen 17. The promise to Abraham was many descendants. It was a promise to Abraham. It was not a promise to you. It was not a promise to me.

6 I will give you a lot of descendants, and in the future they will become great nations. Some of them will even be kings. 7 I will always keep the promise (singular) I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God. 8 I will give you and them the land in which you are now a foreigner (Israel) I will give the whole land of Canaan to your family forever, and I will be their God. 9 Abraham, you and all future members of your family (Jews) must promise to obey me. 10-11 As the sign that you are keeping this promise, you must circumcise every man and boy in your family. 12-13 From now on, your family must circumcise every baby boy when he is eight days old. You must even circumcise any man or boy you have as a slave, both those born in your homes and those you buy from foreigners. This will be a sign that my promise to you will last forever. 14 Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people.

2 Tim 3:16 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. 2 Cor 1:19 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. Joshua 23:14 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. Why are so blatantly twisting scripture? Do you have a scripture that supports your belief that the promises to the Jews are ours and that Abraham is our spiritual father?
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This post of yours is not 100 percent correct.
First of all you have no idea who the promises are for and what is this they were only for jews and not us ?

see Galatians 3:14 ((so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles)) what is this blessing KJ ? It is sure not many descendants.
This is what YOU NEED to do.....learn what the blessing is...........
Blessings
Jim
 
Great Fiction said:
Analogous dilemma

What of “Sharon the Christian innovator” who tithes faithfully, also is an extraordinary executive who has innovated a new product with global success which improves living conditions all over the world and receives a salary of 10 million dollars a year.

If she keeps 90 percent to herself, is she then a “sinner of excess?”

What if Sharon keeps 90 percent, the whole 9 million; but personally allocates 1 million to her person, and allocates 8 million into a bank for financial leverage to innovate further the prosperity and elimination of poverty for millions more?

Would she still be a sinner of excess to have 1 million dollars for self expenditure; after all her 8 million in innovation is eliminating poverty with incredible effect?
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Modesty = modesty. We can all learn from the pope on this!
 
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Fish Catcher Jim said:
This post of yours is not 100 percent correct.
First of all you have no idea who the promises are for and what is this they were only for jews and not us ?

see Galatians 3:14 ((so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles)) what is this blessing KJ ? It is sure not many descendants.
This is what YOU NEED to do.....learn what the blessing is...........
Blessings
Jim
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The promise to Abraham was many blessed descendants. You cannot change that.

You are having difficulty with the blessings part because you want to see it as promises you can claim and not for what it is. Many descendants cannot be claimed.... just like riches / claiming land of milk and honey as Euphemia's post # 123 suggested (which ignited this whole discussion).

We can be one of the many descendants / fulfill this promise by obeying the law BC (Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people) / being in-Christ AD . The blessing in Gal 3:14 is union with God. We partake of the promise (to Abraham) when in union with God. By faith we receive Jesus. The promise of the Spirit. Not...the promise of the land of milk and honey....riches on par with Abraham.

Read Gal 3 as it is written. It is disgusting and shameful to think Gal 3:14 has anything to do with promises of prosperity. It is the greatest promise that exists!! It is the promise of union with God through Jesus!!...the very reason Abraham was chosen.



 
KingJ said:
The promise to Abraham was many blessed descendants.

Gen 17:6 I will give you a lot of descendants, and in the future they will become great nations. Some of them will even be kings. 7 I will always keep the promise (singular) I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God. 8 I will give you and them the land in which you are now a foreigner (Israel) I will give the whole land of Canaan to your family forever, and I will be their God. 9 Abraham, you and all future members of your family (Jews) must promise to obey me. 10-11 As the sign that you are keeping this promise, you must circumcise every man and boy in your family. 12-13 From now on, your family must circumcise every baby boy when he is eight days old. You must even circumcise any man or boy you have as a slave, both those born in your homes and those you buy from foreigners. This will be a sign that my promise to you will last forever. 14 Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people.

2 Tim 3:16 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. 2 Cor 1:19 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. Joshua 23:14 does not say God's promises to the Jews are ours. Why are so blatantly twisting scripture? Do you have a scripture that supports your belief that the promises to the Jews are ours and that Abraham is our spiritual father?
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Are you choosing to ignore God's promises because you are a Gentile? Every promise in God's word for His children are ours in Jesus. There is no more Jew and Gentile in the household of God. We are all one in Christ---the new man. When we are told that Abraham is the father to ALL WHO BELIEVE, then I believe God.
 
KingJ said:
The promise to Abraham was many blessed descendants. You cannot change that.

Read Gal 3 as it is written. It is disgusting and shameful to think Gal 3:14 has anything to do with promises of prosperity. It is the greatest promise that exists!! It is the promise of union with God through Jesus!!...the very reason Abraham was chosen.
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It's "disgusting" to separate out financial prosperity with the whole prosperity ball of wax as if it is something shameful. What's shameful is being ruled by the love of money, just as it is to disdain it. God promises prosperity in every arena. He gives us the ability to gain wealth---in all areas.

Deuteronomy 8:18
But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.
 
Euphemia said:
1. Are you choosing to ignore God's promises because you are a Gentile? 2. Every promise in God's word for His children are ours in Jesus. 3. There is no more Jew and Gentile in the household of God. We are all one in Christ---the new man. 4. When we are told that Abraham is the father to ALL WHO BELIEVE, then I believe God.
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1. No. I just know what the 'promise' to me is and who I am in Christ.
2. No its not. Example: The Jews were promised Israel, a land of milk and honey. We were not.
3. Agreed. Gal 3 is crystal clear. This however has absolutely nothing to do with promises to the Jews.
4. You previously said Abraham was our spiritual father and as a result all promises to the Jews apply to us now. That and what you saying now are different statements. The above is scriptural. Of course as long as ''father' is a metaphor.
 
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