Fair enough
Besides, I am exhausted lol.
Poll on hell
- Thread starter KingJ
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Besides, I am exhausted lol.
Fair enough
I think that Gods image or character being transmitted via the breath of God is very very plausible, at least during creation weak. My objection is to where the spirit returns when we die.
The following verse discussing the process of death , it says, all spirits according to this verse returns to God.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecc 12:7
Note: It does not say just the righteous here. There is also nothing about it being a conscious being. The unconsciousness is demonstrated in Ecc 9. Food for thought. God Bless.
My definition of hell is separation from God. Scripture tells us that the only way back to God is to accept into your heart, Christ as our Lord and Savior. I am reminded of a near death experience recounted by Angie Fenimore in her book Beyond the Darkness. After she committed suicide, she found herself in a dark bad place but when she called out to God, she began to see lights. They had been there all along but she just couldn't see them.
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WHY?
What's so bad -- so EVIL? -- about God saving everyone?
?
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I really do not know how to address this. I may just be an old man talking to myself.
But, I don't think we have a clear view of either Heaven or Hell. We have some descriptions of limited aspects of Heaven, that may be more depictions of something that happens (like the Judgment Seat). There is even less of Hell.
I think that although the orientation of our thoughts is to be to the 'things above', the concentration of our efforts is to be the task at hand.
I do know that in Heaven, we will perceive Him fully 1 Cor 13:12.
I think that Hell would be the complete absence of perception. Still having needs, none being met. A physical analogy would be needing to breath, but there is no air, and needing to drink, but there is no water, being hungry but there is no food.
I approach the unknowable by contemplating what I do know. I know that the Lord God made all things. He even made the 'nothing' that defines space, so even stating that He made everything out of nothing is too weak. Although God may destroy something, I am not aware that he ever unmakes or uncreates anything. He may cause a stone to break, but never to be uncreated, made into less than nothing. I think that is the same with whatever Life is (and here I am not talking about bio-chemical processes). So, I think that there will be spirits that can no longer perceive the least part of the Holy God. That would be hell indeed.
But, I don't think we have a clear view of either Heaven or Hell. We have some descriptions of limited aspects of Heaven, that may be more depictions of something that happens (like the Judgment Seat). There is even less of Hell.
I think that although the orientation of our thoughts is to be to the 'things above', the concentration of our efforts is to be the task at hand.
I do know that in Heaven, we will perceive Him fully 1 Cor 13:12.
I think that Hell would be the complete absence of perception. Still having needs, none being met. A physical analogy would be needing to breath, but there is no air, and needing to drink, but there is no water, being hungry but there is no food.
I approach the unknowable by contemplating what I do know. I know that the Lord God made all things. He even made the 'nothing' that defines space, so even stating that He made everything out of nothing is too weak. Although God may destroy something, I am not aware that he ever unmakes or uncreates anything. He may cause a stone to break, but never to be uncreated, made into less than nothing. I think that is the same with whatever Life is (and here I am not talking about bio-chemical processes). So, I think that there will be spirits that can no longer perceive the least part of the Holy God. That would be hell indeed.
It is not a question of bad, evil etc. it is a question of what is.
The lord has warned everyone about consequences, and he is not one to say one thing and do another.
Eze 33:11. Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
unless they repent..........
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"Everyone"?
Billions of people have never even heard of God or Christ!
G'day Ken?
I suppose I didn't mean literally everyone in that sense.
However,
Everyone does have a basic knowledge of morality and knowing good and evil... a fundamental knowledge of God.
I believe that those you speak of will be judged righteously----consider:
Rev 20:11. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
I believe these spoken of here are those who have never heard and responded to the gospel.
Notice in verse 15 the word 'if' is used of these folk's destiny.
It tells me that some, maybe even a great many will be found recorded in the Lamb's book of life and will not be cast into the lake of fire.
I want to suggest that Jesus might have had this in mind when He said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6.
And here again spoken by the Master.
Joh 5:24. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Joh 5:25. "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
Joh 5:26. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27. And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
Joh 5:29. and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
But notice that for those who have heard Jesus and obeyed there is to be no judgment. viz V24.
So, I think it is unwise to dwell on huge numbers being sent to eternal destruction. To be sure there will be many, either those who are simply too wicked by choice and have no redeeming features or those who have heard the gospel of Jesus and have rejected Him.
In short, Scripture is telling me that for those who go to destruction, their fate is 'On them'.
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Really?!
What's amazing to me is how well God has hidden universal salvation!
People don't see it, even though it's repeatedly stated and implied from Genesis to Revelation!
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"Everyone"?
What about the billions of infants and children?
What about the retarded people?
What about the insane, especially the sociopaths that have no conscience?
Besides, people will NEVER be saved by their good works.
Agreed?
Universal salvation is not taught in the scriptures precisely because it only is a man-made idea born out of fear and denial.
Amen Brother !!
How does one debate what is written in the word of God ?
Next we will have a debate on if the Blood is required ?
Infants and children under the age of accountability are OK.
Retarded people Ditto
"What about the insane, especially the sociopaths that have no conscience"? Not sure if they have no conscience or not... but I believe they will be judged in righteousness.
"Besides, people will NEVER be saved by their good works." Never? People who rely on good works instead of faith in Christ Jesus, I agree with you there as Paul says, : For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin....Rom 3:20 However, I have provided you with scripture that covers those who did not have the opportunity to choose between works (of the Law BTW) and faith in Christ.
Many people race off gung ho with this passage from Paul, but they seem to neglect to factor in the point that Paul is making......the Law will save nobody.
GOD is an AWESOME JUDGE.........If you think that He would send any child or infant or retarded person to hell then you might want to come find the God that says I am that I am.
What exactly do you mean here ?
And for that matter Revelation is filled with allegory and to read it literally is utterly absurd.
@KingJ Greetings,
Brother you said this...........
(((((All the options in the OP have supporting scripture. But, the real question is how we justify that belief to ourselves.)))))
To be truthful.........No they do not..........If you take the scriptures you quoted to mean what you place them as then you have no understanding of the scriptures.........
Brother you said this...........
(((((All the options in the OP have supporting scripture. But, the real question is how we justify that belief to ourselves.)))))
To be truthful.........No they do not..........If you take the scriptures you quoted to mean what you place them as then you have no understanding of the scriptures.........
Jesus took on ALL SIN..Past...present....future.....JESUS gave up the spirit and this is how He could end up in Hell to defeat death and satan......Then while in hell God put His spirit back in Jesus....this is when He defeated death...It is all in His word....
You might want to think through this one Calvin....Jesus had to give up His spirit in order to take on all sin. He could not have taken apon Himself all sin with the spirit of God in Him. That is why the Holy Ghost could not go to the crtoss anbd needed to be a man.
Now then as to man........your thinking does work because man is not going to the cross for us.
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