Poll on hell

What do you believe?

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Major said:
Are you trying to equate the servants pledge to his master as a slave to being eternal?

If circumstances made the slave desire to remain with his master he pledged this by having an AWL or sharp piercing tool pushed through his ear lobe at the door post before the judges. He thereby signified his obedience to that household.

Do you have a point you would like to share with the rest of us????



I am at a loss as to how that does not equal eternal torments.
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Facts:

1.) The word "eternal" and "torment" never show up side by side anywhere in scripture. There is eternal destruction, eternal smoke, eternal fire, eternal life, eternal God, eternal name, eternal covenant, eternal blessing, eternal shame, eternal home, eternal excellency, eternal damnation, eternal weight of Glory . Nothing about eternal torment.

3.) The word everlasting and torment never show up together. There is everlasting covenant, everlasting love, everlasting possession, everlasting God, everlasting priesthood, everlasting statute, everlasting arms, everlasting doors, everlasting smoke, everlasting father, everlasting strength, everlasting burnings, everlatign salvation, everlasting kindness, everlasting sign, everlasting light, everlasting destruction etc..

2.) The word "for ever" does not always equate to eternal in scripture.
 
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Man-ofGod said:
What I wanted to know is what do you equate "for ever" in this verse to mean?
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How can it be that hard to understand?

Forever means forever!!!

The Bible does teach the punishment in Hell will last forever. I don’t understand it nor do I like it. I am, however, obligated to accept it. I have two choices: I can either spend my time thinking about how unfair God is for doing this, or I can spend my time and energy trying to find ways to keep people from going to Hell in the first place.

The Bible teaches that there is a fiery hell, a place that Jesus warned people about.

Matt. 18:8............
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire."

Eternal fire is real. Jesus said it was. In fact, Jesus spoke a great deal about hell than He did about heaven. It is what Jesus came here to save us from. There will be a Day of Judgment when all people will face God. Those who are not covered by the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross will be cast out into hell where they will undergo eternal punishment.

Matt. 24:46.........
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life,".

In this verse, the same word "eternal" is used to describe the punishment of the wicked as well as the eternal life of the believer. The punishment is endless as is the eternal life of the believer. That is why the gospel is so important because it saves people from eternal damnation:
 
Man-ofGod said:
Facts:

1.) The word "eternal" and "torment" never show up side by side anywhere in scripture. There is eternal destruction, eternal smoke, eternal fire, eternal life, eternal God, eternal name, eternal covenant, eternal blessing, eternal shame, eternal home, eternal excellency, eternal damnation, eternal weight of Glory. Nothing about eternal torment.

2.) The word "for ever" does not always equate to eternal in scripture.
Click to expand...

Forever means eternal!!!
 
Major said:
How can it be that hard to understand?

Forever means forever!!!

The Bible does teach the punishment in Hell will last forever. I don’t understand it nor do I like it. I am, however, obligated to accept it. I have two choices: I can either spend my time thinking about how unfair God is for doing this, or I can spend my time and energy trying to find ways to keep people from going to Hell in the first place.

The Bible teaches that there is a fiery hell, a place that Jesus warned people about.

Matt. 18:8............
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire."

Eternal fire is real. Jesus said it was. In fact, Jesus spoke a great deal about hell than He did about heaven. It is what Jesus came here to save us from. There will be a Day of Judgment when all people will face God. Those who are not covered by the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross will be cast out into hell where they will undergo eternal punishment.

Matt. 24:46.........
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life,".

In this verse, the same word "eternal" is used to describe the punishment of the wicked as well as the eternal life of the believer. The punishment is endless as is the eternal life of the believer. That is why the gospel is so important because it saves people from eternal damnation:
Click to expand...

Ok, lets talk about eternal fire and in the context of judgement per the plain word of the bible:

Jude :

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Is Sodom and Gomorrha still burning today? This verse makes it clear that Sodom are set fourth as an EXAMPLE of what is to come.

I am sorry, the bible is clear. You have to allow for elasticity in the langauge.
 
MoG? The verse you are using about slave to a household is not meant to be eternal. On the other hand, I have 5 fingers and once the final choice is in - eternal separation from God sucks for any number of reasons. Flesh is finite - souls are not.

Careful Major - are you saying the slave is forever bound to a human master?
 
Silk said:
MoG? The verse you are using about slave to a household is not meant to be eternal. On the other hand, I have 5 fingers and once the final choice is in - eternal separation from God sucks for any number of reasons. Flesh is finite - souls are not.

Careful Major - are you saying the slave is forever bound to a human master?
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That is my point:) It is very clear.

God Bless,
MoG
 
Glomung said:
Sorry, but you have a gift for misapplying scripture to suit your own notions.
Glomung said:
Sorry, but you have a gift for misapplying scripture to suit your own notions.

the gnshing is the pesons own teeth in pain, pay attention to context, it has nothing to do with biting others
the wailing should make that fairly obvious

and you can't get away from the "fire is not quenched" no matter what weaseling you may do
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There has already been a post where it clearly shows what the Bible says about gnashing of teath. and it is not so much if at all about pain but frustrated hatred of God .That is of no avail.
As for the fire not being quenched . Who denies it.
It simply not the fire you seem to think of it as.

Accusations denials mockery reviling are the most base arguments (if you can call them that) a person can use and usually are recourse to when they have no argument .Either to justify their own or rebut anothers .

In Christ
gerald
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Bro Major,

Not trying to back you in a corner or bang you over the head with scripture--just so you know! We have to put away our pride when studying scripture. and be willing to put our beliefs to the test against the word of God. Truth can afford to be fair. If it is clearly shown to me that I am wrong, I promise you I will admit to it.. the word of God must be true, only our interpretation be wrong. We have to become like a child.

Tradition is a powerful tranquilizer to the word of God, hence why Satan is so good at it using it. Anyway, only by prayer to the Lord and complete dependence and obedience to his will we come to a fuller understanding of his word.


God Bless you,
MoG
 
Not that I need to defend/butt in.... but I don't agree that Major is acting/typing out of pride. He is stating what many believe - that rejecting God has eternal consequences. And scripturally - that is what we are told. Over and over again. There should be no "glee" over the consequences to the unsaved. I pray for households now. Maybe that's silly - idk. But I think of Sodom & Gomorrah and Lot. There were not 10 righteous men in Lot's household or the cities and I think that Lot was saved because Abraham loved him. Lot's children from his incestuous relations with his virgin daughters all turned out to be Israel's enemies. James, brother of Jesus, was called the righteous/just and his death in 62 AD was considered by Josephus (1st century historian) and most of the Roman world was then considered the rationale for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish diaspora. I think true Christians are "holding up" what's left of this world. Strangely enough, it was this and scripture that convinced me of the pre-trib rapture. The antichrist cannot come to fruition while we are still here. All we can hope is that we leave enough truth to save some from what's coming.
 
Man-ofGod said:
Bro Major,

Not trying to back you in a corner or bang you over the head with scripture--just so you know! We have to put away our pride when studying scripture. and be willing to put our beliefs to the test against the word of God. Truth can afford to be fair. If it is clearly shown to me that I am wrong, I promise you I will admit to it.. the word of God must be true, only our interpretation be wrong. We have to become like a child.

Tradition is a powerful tranquilizer to the word of God, hence why Satan is so good at it using it. Anyway, only by prayer to the Lord and complete dependence and obedience to his will we come to a fuller understanding of his word.


God Bless you,
MoG
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I am not going to point out your error. That my friend is up to the Holy Spirit of God not me.
 
Man-ofGod said:
Ok, lets talk about eternal fire and in the context of judgement per the plain word of the bible:

Jude :

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Is Sodom and Gomorrha still burning today? This verse makes it clear that Sodom are set fourth as an EXAMPLE of what is to come.

I am sorry, the bible is clear. You have to allow for elasticity in the langauge.
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IF that is what you choose to believe then there is nothing I can say.

Do you believe that heaven is forever????? Is it eternal????

Why would the same one who told us of heaven tell us something different about hell.

IF you choose to accept annihilation fine with me. What I am saying to you is that there is not one single Bible verse to substantiate that belief.
You can force several Scriptures to say that but none of them will be in the context of what you want them to say.
 
Man-ofGod said:
Ok, lets talk about eternal fire and in the context of judgement per the plain word of the bible:

Jude :

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Is Sodom and Gomorrha still burning today? This verse makes it clear that Sodom are set fourth as an EXAMPLE of what is to come.

I am sorry, the bible is clear. You have to allow for elasticity in the langauge.
Click to expand...

My understanding or the plight of Sodom and friends is that though they were physically destroyed by fire etc. they are still suffering the burden of Eternal Fire. You ask are they still burning today? Well I believe they are, in that they will never rise again. The final memories of Sodom and Gomorrah are smoking messes and that is the way the memories will endure for all eternity. Their destruction is forever, not just for a hundred years or so. Their glory if one might use that term has past and is overshadowed by the completeness and the enduring of their fiery destruction.
 
calvin said:
My understanding or the plight of Sodom and friends is that though they were physically destroyed by fire etc. they are still suffering the burden of Eternal Fire. You ask are they still burning today? Well I believe they are, in that they will never rise again. The final memories of Sodom and Gomorrah are smoking messes and that is the way the memories will endure for all eternity. Their destruction is forever, not just for a hundred years or so. Their glory if one might use that term has past and is overshadowed by the completeness and the enduring of their fiery destruction.
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Major said:
IF that is what you choose to believe then there is nothing I can say.

Do you believe that heaven is forever????? Is it eternal????

Why would the same one who told us of heaven tell us something different about hell.

IF you choose to accept annihilation fine with me. What I am saying to you is that there is not one single Bible verse to substantiate that belief.
You can force several Scriptures to say that but none of them will be in the context of what you want them to say.
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Wherever God dwells, that is heaven. Since God is eternal, by extension his dwelling place is eternal.

With that said, I do choose Annihilation because it is biblical. You say I forced scripture to say something yet I have not offered my own interpretation on any text quoted but just simply quoted it and its corresponding verses. I did not use any exegetical gymnastics based on private interpretation/tradition to arrive at my conclusion but let the bible speak for itself. If there was a "problem verse" I showed from scripture where the same words can mean something different. If I have forced scripture to say something, that is I did not let scripture define scripture but just used my own explanation, then I challenge you to show me where I did just that? I can say with humility that I am secure in all my doctrine because all text agree. I fear no man as to what he may think but only fear God and that leads me to a purer understanding of his word. Scripture says cursed be the man that maketh flesh his arm.

I would also like to add that eternal torment contains mysteries like:

1.) Why is the immortal soul resurrected?
2.) why is there a second death
3.) How can God be love and yet keep the wicked alive to eternally torture them. Is God more sadistic then Hitler?
4.) Is God fair if he is allows Cain to burn longer then Hitler or Uzza (2 sam 6:6) to burn longer then Stalin?
5.) The scripture says only God is immortal yet how is the "soul" immortal also.


But I tell you the truth, there is no mystery with annihilation. No gymnastics needs to be performed when explaining the doctrine of the resurrection. We know the second death is judgement and does not begin at a persons literal death but at the time appointed in scripture. We can see that God is a God of love and mercy (the weightier matter of the law), for he blots the wicked out of existence--out of their own misery. We see that God is fair, because everyone will receive there rewards according to their works, not according to when they died in the annals of time.

Furthermore, annihilation is a wonderful antidote to heresies such as 1.) spiritualism and 2.) talking to the dead

Annihilation is logical bibically, is healthier spiritually, and demonstrates Gods mercy to the wicked. There is really no benefit to eternal torment theologically or practically. This goes back to the garden of Eden where the serpent told our parents the very first lie that "thou shall not die" in opposition to Gods command.

By the hardness of their hearts, the Jews rejected truth for the sake of their traditions. Let us not do the same but like Jesus say, "come let us reason together."

Blessings,
MoG
 
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I would like to agree MoG, but I do not see where God ever takes away His gifts. That includes His gift of our soul. Even in the flood, when He regretted making us, He only took the flesh. I do know that God has allowed some dead to speak - witness Samuel and the witch of Endor - with a purpose. Having said that, I think the majority of those ghost TV shows are probably demonic manifestations. They are witness to an afterlife. And I have no problem with people knowing that there is an afterlife. To be fair - God has granted us the choice to reject Him - would a righteous God annihilate those who rejected? For what purpose?
 
Silk said:
I would like to agree MoG, but I do not see where God ever takes away His gifts. That includes His gift of our soul. Even in the flood, when He regretted making us, He only took the flesh. I do know that God has allowed some dead to speak - witness Samuel and the witch of Endor - with a purpose. Having said that, I think the majority of those ghost TV shows are probably demonic manifestations. They are witness to an afterlife. And I have no problem with people knowing that there is an afterlife. To be fair - God has granted us the choice to reject Him - would a righteous God annihilate those who rejected? For what purpose?
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I understand what you mean Silk. I believe scripture teaches that the soul is not separate from the body but that man is a living soul For biblical text I cite:

Gen 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This old radio show talking about this topic may help.

http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/media/e/710/t/death-and-the-soul--part-1.aspx

God Bless you,
MoG
 
I believe that the spiritual soul hosted the physical with Adam and after the fall, the physical hosted the spirit. It is the spirit that is in God's image...not the flesh. The soul does separate from the flesh at death. It is the soul that is immortal because it is of God's breath. He made it that way from the beginning and He never (scriptually) takes away His gifts. Not to Satan and his fallen angels and not to us (humans). To annihilate would mean God made a mistake.
 
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