Poll on hell

[GBzone]

Matthew 25:46 = Eternal torture.

Quote: Mathew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal"

Im not sure I should even ask how you equate "punishment " with torture as I don't believe error should get air time .But the truth .
"punishment" has a sense of righteous and just consequences for doing wrong or evil.
From a loving parent punishing their child to a convicted criminal serving a prison sentence or the death penalty .

Torture is not punishment .
and it should be self evidently so.
Accept of course if you don't think people should be punished ?

in Christ
gerald

 

[Man-ofGod]

"where the fire is not quenched and their worm dieth not"
"where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth"

doesn't sound very pleasant, does it?
do the particulars really matter?
(never have understood the worm thing, probably would rather not know)

Definitely not pleasant I agree, but this is not because of eternal torture in a fire.

What causes a person to gnash their teeth according to scripture?

Job 16:9
He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.

Psalms 37:12:
The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

Now notice what happens to the wicked who weep and gnash of teeth :

The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish Psalms 112:10

The wicked first shall see something, then they are grieved (weeping) and then they gnash their teeth. What do they see?

We go back one verse:

9 He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.

The wicked shall see the horn of God exalted with honor, that is Jesus (Luke 1:69). Rev 20:11-15 explains the whole process.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (When the wicked are resurrected in the next verse, this is what the wicked see, this is their outer darkness. They see the lamb w/ the saints in the New Jerusalem, while they are outside the city in "outer darkness" weeping and gnashing their teeth.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell (grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (vs 14-15 discuss the perishing of the wicked)

God Bless,
MoG

 

[GBzone]

Definitely not pleasant I agree, but this is not because of eternal torture in a fire.

What causes a person to gnash their teeth according to scripture?

Job 16:9
He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.

I would agree with you as to the gnashing of teeth thanks for that .I had not come across those scriptures before that I remember .
But as to the fire. I have to disagree with you .
For one thing the scriptures definately speak of a fire .
I would suggest that it is a fire we know not of .
Save perhaps in the positive sense of "he makes his ministers a flame of fire" Or "God is a consuming fire" and on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came as LIKE cloven tounges of fire.
I have never found the Bible wrong yet .I have on the other hand found that I am wrong never to believe what it says .

In Christ
gerald


Psalms 37:12:
The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

Now notice what happens to the wicked who weep and gnash of teeth :

The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish Psalms 112:10

The wicked first shall see something, then they are grieved (weeping) and then they gnash their teeth. What do they see?

We go back one verse:

9 He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.

The wicked shall see the horn of God exalted with honor, that is Jesus (Luke 1:69). Rev 20:11-15 explains the whole process.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (When the wicked are resurrected in the next verse, this is what the wicked see, this is their outer darkness. They see the lamb w/ the saints in the New Jerusalem, while they are outside the city in "outer darkness" weeping and gnashing their teeth.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell (grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (vs 14-15 discuss the perishing of the wicked)

God Bless,
MoG

 

[Silk]

I dunno about you guys, but when I gnash/grind my teeth, I am having anxiety over bad news and what it implies for me. Generally used when I have made a bad choice.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Hi Bro. GBzone,

My comment was related not to fire but to eternal torture in fire. But there is indeed fire-- I agree. That is plain enough.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Hi Bro. GBzone,

My comment was related not to fire but to eternal torture in fire. But there is indeed fire-- I agree. That is plain enough

 

[GBzone]

That is simply your opinion. There are some intense arguments for Annihilation.

Intense arguments no matter how "intense " that does not have at its foundation the truth can be upheld by scripture .Still does not make it true .
The ONLY possible argument is that the BODY is destroyed and no longer usable being destroyed by sin and not therefore redeemed by the Lord and raised up from the grave.
The soul cant be destroyed but you can 'lose' it .
The Body is the means by which the soul is expressed. Thus you have the inner man and the outer man .

No other biblical explanation can resolve the 'problem' that I am aware of.
Of course if the wicked think that death is a refuge for them. For they will be annihalated and there is no come back or answering for their wickedness . Then not only does the death and resurrection of Jesus deny that but also the final end of Satan as well.
For there is no place for him either and he will come to a place where he cannot use anybody either.
and he too will not be annihilated but cast into the lake of fire etc.

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

Hi Bro. GBzone,

My comment was related not to fire but to eternal torture in fire. But there is indeed fire-- I agree. That is plain enough

My argument as to the term torture still stands and is not been rebutted or indeed any proof as to the term torture being justifiable .
I also believe it dishonours God as well and grieves the Holy Spirit.

in Christ
Gerald

 

[Glomung]

Sorry, but you have a gift for misapplying scripture to suit your own notions.

the gnshing is the pesons own teeth in pain, pay attention to context, it has nothing to do with biting others
the wailing should make that fairly obvious

and you can't get away from the "fire is not quenched" no matter what weaseling you may do

 

[Man-ofGod]

Sorry, but you have a gift for misapplying scripture to suit your own notions.

the gnshing is the pesons own teeth in pain, pay attention to context, it has nothing to do with biting others
the wailing should make that fairly obvious

and you can't get away from the "fire is not quenched" no matter what weaseling you may do

Hi,

I do not mind that you disagree, but at least try to back up what you say so then maybe I will know where the flaw in my theology is. Show me which text demonstrates gnashing of teeth is associated with pain?

Also a fire is quenched when it is extinguished. Gods fire is eternal and never extinguishes because God Himself is a devouring fire. The people however are not eternal or immortal, only God is immortal (1 tim 6:16).

God Bless,
MoG

 

[Major]

Definitely not pleasant I agree, but this is not because of eternal torture in a fire.

What causes a person to gnash their teeth according to scripture?

Job 16:9
He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.

Psalms 37:12:
The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

Now notice what happens to the wicked who weep and gnash of teeth :

The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish Psalms 112:10

The wicked first shall see something, then they are grieved (weeping) and then they gnash their teeth. What do they see?

We go back one verse:

9 He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.

The wicked shall see the horn of God exalted with honor, that is Jesus (Luke 1:69). Rev 20:11-15 explains the whole process.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (When the wicked are resurrected in the next verse, this is what the wicked see, this is their outer darkness. They see the lamb w/ the saints in the New Jerusalem, while they are outside the city in "outer darkness" weeping and gnashing their teeth.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell (grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (vs 14-15 discuss the perishing of the wicked)

God Bless,
MoG

Seems to me that vs. 14 and 15 confirms the eternal torment of the wicked.

 

[Major]

Hi,

I do not mind that you disagree, but at least try to back up what you say so then maybe I will know where the flaw in my theology is. Show me which text demonstrates gnashing of teeth is associated with pain?

Also a fire is quenched when it is extinguished. Gods fire is eternal and never extinguishes because God Himself is a devouring fire. The people however are not eternal or immortal, only God is immortal (1 tim 6:16).

God Bless,
MoG

I can certainly satisfy your request but that is not the problem. YOU accepting the clear Word is the concern my brother.

Rev. 20:10: ........
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (NKJV).

The pronoun they in that verse refers back to the devil, the beast (or antichrist) and the false prophet. In other words, the devil and some humans will suffer this eternal fate. So, according to Scripture, their eternal destiny will be torment day and night forever and ever. That equals eternal torment. From this we can also conclude that the souls of the antichrist and false prophet are eternal, since they won't be annihilated out of existence. This same truth is repeatedly substantiated throughout Scripture. Moreover, the Greek word translated tormented in Rev. 20:10, with its meaning, is: basanizo, bas-an-id'-zo; from G931; to torture:--pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

Rev. 19:20........
" Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with
brimstone.

Rev. 14:10-12........
"with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.".

Matthew 22:13........
“Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 8:12 ...........
“the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 25:30........
“And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Notice the outer darkness goes with the gnashing of teeth. This is a place of judgment that cannot be crossed back over from. There will be eternal weeping or regret…regret from hearing the gospel and knowing about the grace of God yet rejecting Him time and time again. This regret will be so intense that people will be grinding (or gnashing) their teeth for all time.

 

[Man-ofGod]

My argument as to the term torture still stands and is not been rebutted or indeed any proof as to the term torture being justifiable .
I also believe it dishonours God as well and grieves the Holy Spirit.

in Christ
Gerald

GC 673.1

 

[Glomung]

Hi,

I do not mind that you disagree, but at least try to back up what you say so then maybe I will know where the flaw in my theology is. Show me which text demonstrates gnashing of teeth is associated with pain?

Also a fire is quenched when it is extinguished. Gods fire is eternal and never extinguishes because God Himself is a devouring fire. The people however are not eternal or immortal, only God is immortal (1 tim 6:16).

God Bless,
MoG

I don't waste my time, you are not open to any thought other than your own.
The fact that you are so willing to misrepresent rather plain scripture makes this stunningly obvious.
All of God's children are immortal, the two options are eternal life and eternal shame, that's made rather plain
throughout scripture.

 

[Silk]

We don't seem to have a lot of response in this world today, to those suffering. I spend too much time at youtube.

 

[boltardy]

We don't seem to have a lot of response in this world today, to those suffering. I spend too much time at youtube.

 

[Man-ofGod]

I can certainly satisfy your request but that is not the problem. YOU accepting the clear Word is the concern my brother.

Rev. 20:10: ........
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (NKJV).

The pronoun they in that verse refers back to the devil, the beast (or antichrist) and the false prophet. In other words, the devil and some humans will suffer this eternal fate. So, according to Scripture, their eternal destiny will be torment day and night forever and ever. That equals eternal torment. From this we can also conclude that the souls of the antichrist and false prophet are eternal, since they won't be annihilated out of existence. This same truth is repeatedly substantiated throughout Scripture. Moreover, the Greek word translated tormented in Rev. 20:10, with its meaning, is: basanizo, bas-an-id'-zo; from G931; to torture:--pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

Rev. 19:20........
" Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with
brimstone.

Rev. 14:10-12........
"with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.".

Matthew 22:13........
“Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 8:12 ...........
“the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 25:30........
“And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Notice the outer darkness goes with the gnashing of teeth. This is a place of judgment that cannot be crossed back over from. There will be eternal weeping or regret…regret from hearing the gospel and knowing about the grace of God yet rejecting Him time and time again. This regret will be so intense that people will be grinding (or gnashing) their teeth for all time.

This is pertaining to Rev 20:10:

Since you are asking me to be accepting of the clear word and by implication suggesting that you do accept the clear word, and further suggest that for ever always means eternity, could you please explain to me what this means:

Exo 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. ?


God Bless,
MoG

 

[Silk]

In the marriage ceremony, it says 'til death do us part. Slavery of the flesh lasts only as long as the flesh. You hear a lot about "slavery" to God but I think this is error. Slavery implies you are controlled but to obey and abide by what you feel is right is the freedom to choose.

 

[Major]

This is pertaining to Rev 20:10:

Since you are asking me to be accepting of the clear word and by implication suggesting that you do accept the clear word, and further suggest that for ever always means eternity, could you please explain to me what this means:

Exo 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. ?


God Bless,
MoG

Are you trying to equate the servants pledge to his master as a slave to being eternal?

If circumstances made the slave desire to remain with his master he pledged this by having an AWL or sharp piercing tool pushed through his ear lobe at the door post before the judges. He thereby signified his obedience to that household.

Do you have a point you would like to share with the rest of us????

I am at a loss as to how that does not equal eternal torments.
Although I would love to believe Hell is only a temporary punishment for humans, I cannot find any verses that indicate it. I do not like the idea of a person being punished for eternity, especially the "sweet old grandmother." As much as I dislike the concept of eternal punishment, I have to abide by what the Bible teaches.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Are you trying to equate the servants pledge to his master as a slave to being eternal?

If circumstances made the slave desire to remain with his master he pledged this by having an AWL or sharp piercing tool pushed through his ear lobe at the door post before the judges. He thereby signified his obedience to that household.

How in the world do you think that equates to the question at hand????

I am at a loss as to how that does not equal eternal torments.

What I wanted to know is what do you equate "for ever" in this verse to mean?