Revival.

YeshuaFan said:
The big problem was no sound theology foundation, as right away groups like the way and other cults came right in!
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Not really, I mean yes, cult groups sprang up simultaneously, but I don't believe they were caused by that revival as much as satan sowing his tares amongst the wheat. IOW, correlation does not imply causation. Remember, lot's of these kids, like me, came out of homes with little to no biblical training and a head full of evolution, so it took some time to get grounded in Scripture. But we loved the Bible.
There were many Christian Bookstores and sound ministries that arose as part of the movement as well as the Calvary Chapels. Unfortunately, when the founder had passed on, the Calvary Chapels went south and some are apostatizing even now, as what usually happens in most similar movements. (Look at the Methodist Church today).
 
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crossnote said:
I would agree with Bob Carabbio that there was a 'revival' better known as the Jesus Movement (appx. 68-78) of whom this soul was a victim of. If anything else, take a look at how many were 'street witnessing' then compared to today. Also there was a general hunger in the land for Truth, kids were seeking, unlike today, kids are jelling out on social media with a cell phone stuck in their face. The casualty of that movement, as we discussed, was the hymns. Although the initial "Jesus music" was simple, clear and biblical, it quickly turned non biblical and powered by big$$.
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The "Jesus Movement" was a somewhat unscriptural precurser to the Charismatic outpouring, which was mainly among adults who were members of Liberal denominations (Methodist, Lutheran, Congregationalist, U.C.C. Roman Catholic - etc.).
 
Bob Carabbio said:
The "Jesus Movement" was a somewhat unscriptural precurser to the Charismatic outpouring, which was mainly among adults who were members of Liberal denominations (Methodist, Lutheran, Congregationalist, U.C.C. Roman Catholic - etc.).
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Precursor? When was this Charismatic outpouring? I thought we were referring to the 1906 Azusa St. event, in which case Azusa was the precursor.
 
Probably not to do with revival but was reading a bio of Aretha Franklin, apparently her dad was a preacher/minister, and it said that his sermons were recorded and also he was commanding thousands of dollars to speak at some venues.

I had no idea that preachers got paid to speak or preach. But then I don't really know how a lot of churches work or where the money goes. It was always a bit of a mystery even when I used to count the offerings, which would go to the bank, but it was never really clear what it got spent on. I suppose if I was the treasurer I would know.

All I know was that if I wanted to give something to the church, they said you can get a tax rebate or something, and if we were given funds to use for church things we got reimbursed if we showed the receipt. But sometimes the church committee said they actually didn't want any money spent on it. Even if it was for something like a new plant or book for the library.
 
BibleLover said:
Revival means to bring something that's dead back to life; thus, the object of revival must have once been alive. Unbelievers have never been alive spiritually, so revival can't be directed toward them. Revival applies only to the church and its members.
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Who then go and evangelize the unbelievers. In the Welsh revival, unbelievers would fall under conviction of SIN, and flock to churches to get saved.
 
crossnote said:
Precursor? When was this Charismatic outpouring? I thought we were referring to the 1906 Azusa St. event, in which case Azusa was the precursor.
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Azuza Street in 1906 was the Pentecostal revival. 58 years later in '64 or so thru '78 or so, There was the Charismatic outpouring, and just before that was the "Jesus Movement".
 
Bob Carabbio said:
Azuza Street in 1906 was the Pentecostal revival. 58 years later in '64 or so thru '78 or so, There was the Charismatic outpouring, and just before that was the "Jesus Movement".
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What about the 'Toronto Blessing'. I did hear about it but it was before I became a christian.
I suppose some Canadians on here would know about it.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
The Pentecostal revival had nothing to do with the Methodist church, although Wesleyan Holiness concepts did play a part in it.

The Pentecostal movement began with Azuza St., the Charismatic Outpouring ('64-'78) was world wide, and completely independent, and bitterly opposed by the Pentecostals because they didn't think it was "Clothesline Holy Enough" according to their legalism.

The fruit of the Pentecostal revival, and the subsequent Charismatic outpouring are proof positive. from zero in 1900 to 26% of the world's Christians in 120 years is significant. I've been Pentecostal for 54 years, and was part of the Charismatic outpouring, and What it was and WHO was it's source was never a question.

Eph 4:11 makes it clear that the miraculous, and the ministries are continuing in 2021, and will continue till the end of the age. You are apparently a Cessationist, so naturally you won't agree.

Which is exactly what the Full-Gospel churches have done, and are doing. It's the cessationist crowd who deny the continuing miracle power of God ministered through His people.
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Bob...as I stated, It commenced in a former African Methodist Episcopal church building located at 312 Azusa Street in Los Angeles, Ca.
Source: https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/azusa-street-revival-1906-1909/

In 1906, Seymour (who had been pastoring in Houston) was invited to preach at a church in Los Angeles. There he preached Parham’s doctrine that speaking in tongues was evidence of the Holy Spirit. After a couple of sermons, the elders of the church barred him from preaching anymore because they disagreed with his message.
Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/Azusa-Street-Revival.html

What I am is not he question What God said is found in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers."

That Scripture certainly does say that Christ gave some apostles, and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers.
It DOES NOT SAY ONE SINGLE WORD ABOUT MIRACULOUS and certainly nothing about 2021.

Now Bob......No one is saying that God does not do miracles or that He does not heal. That is what OY are saying.
 
YeshuaFan said:
The Charismatic Movement to me is the great Trojan Horse of past century, as under that banner of the "movement of the Holy Spirit", rank heresy came into the Church!
All one had to be was a fellow "tongue talker". and then all theology differences were pushed aside overnight!
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Amen!
 
Bob Carabbio said:
The Pentecostal revival had nothing to do with the Methodist church, although Wesleyan Holiness concepts did play a part in it. The Pentecostal movement began with Azuza St., the Charismatic Outpouring ('64-'78) was world wide, and completely independent, and bitterly opposed by the Pentecostals because they didn't think it was "Clothesline Holy Enough" according to their legalism. The fruit of the Pentecostal revival, and the subsequent Charismatic outpouring are proof positive. from zero in 1900 to 26% of the world's Christians in 120 years is significant. I've been Pentecostal for 54 years, and was part of the Charismatic outpouring, and What it was and WHO was it's source was never a question.
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YeshuaFan said:
The big problem was no sound theology foundation, as right away groups like the way and other cults came right in!
Click to expand...

Hello Bob;

In the revival of 1964-1978 we cannot leave out the Methodists, Pentecostals and the Charismatics. I blue-lighted what you stated and agree the revival outpouring revealed a positive response to many new believers, therefore, the movement of the Holy Spirit cannot be categorized but inclusive of all believers.

The Movement extended in the 1960s through 1978 into what was called the Charismatic, Holiness, Methodist, "all believers" movement known as “the Second Wave” and its doctrine and practice was the Spiritual gifts. Again, the roots of Pentecostals, Charismatics and Holiness movements and others are deeply connected within the Holy Spirit, thus the revival during that time.

It doesn't stop there. There was a continuance of the revival movement in the 80s and even on into today's times.

YeshuaFan;

I have to agree with your statement. The revivals historically were very moving and brought more believers to Christ. But what has been the solid, theological foundation of their faith is still questionable in these times.

God bless you all and thank you.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
Azuza Street in 1906 was the Pentecostal revival. 58 years later in '64 or so thru '78 or so, There was the Charismatic outpouring, and just before that was the "Jesus Movement".
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Azusa was not what many have proclaimed it to be though, as there was troubling things going on, and there was some bad theology being taught!
 
Major said:
Bob...as I stated, It commenced in a former African Methodist Episcopal church building located at 312 Azusa Street in Los Angeles, Ca.
Source: https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/azusa-street-revival-1906-1909/

In 1906, Seymour (who had been pastoring in Houston) was invited to preach at a church in Los Angeles. There he preached Parham’s doctrine that speaking in tongues was evidence of the Holy Spirit. After a couple of sermons, the elders of the church barred him from preaching anymore because they disagreed with his message.
Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/Azusa-Street-Revival.html

What I am is not he question What God said is found in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers."

That Scripture certainly does say that Christ gave some apostles, and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers.
It DOES NOT SAY ONE SINGLE WORD ABOUT MIRACULOUS and certainly nothing about 2021.

Now Bob......No one is saying that God does not do miracles or that He does not heal. That is what OY are saying.
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Nothing also about a second act of grace evidenced by speaking forth in tongues!
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Bob;

In the revival of 1964-1978 we cannot leave out the Methodists, Pentecostals and the Charismatics. I blue-lighted what you stated and agree the revival outpouring revealed a positive response to many new believers, therefore, the movement of the Holy Spirit cannot be categorized but inclusive of all believers.

The Movement extended in the 1960s through 1978 into what was called the Charismatic, Holiness, Methodist, "all believers" movement known as “the Second Wave” and its doctrine and practice was the Spiritual gifts. Again, the roots of Pentecostals, Charismatics and Holiness movements and others are deeply connected within the Holy Spirit, thus the revival during that time.

It doesn't stop there. There was a continuance of the revival movement in the 80s and even on into today's times.

YeshuaFan;

I have to agree with your statement. The revivals historically were very moving and brought more believers to Christ. But what has been the solid, theological foundation of their faith is still questionable in these times.

God bless you all and thank you.
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I am not against the Holy Spirit really moving, but so much bad theology got wrapped up under the Charismatic Movement, how could the Spirit be authoring hersies and false doctrines, is He not the Holy Spirit?

And where doers the Bible state that we would have Acts again in the end times, with modern prophets and Apostles then?
 
YeshuaFan said:
Azusa was not what many have proclaimed it to be though, as there was troubling things going on, and there was some bad theology being taught!
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There always is - so no big deal. It took the Pentecostals decades to shed the Wesleyan "Holiness club" rabbit trails. There was also a "Spiritist" presence at Azuza, and McAlister's "Oneness" folks were there too. "Bad Theology" is part and parcel of denominational churches in general.
 
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