Speak Your Mind 2

[crossnote]

I think you know the answers to your own questions.

as you proved it here...

Some lump praise in with worship as if they are one and the same, which they are not.

Now you ask...

What does worship look like when you're alone with God, and what does it look like in the corporate setting?

adding a ...

Sheesh...

and an...

lol

As you can tell by now, I'm not in the mood.

If you recall, your original question was...

What do you all like best about going to services on Sunday mornings?

Which my answer was...

In the rare occasions that if and when it happens...the fellowship afterwards, otherwise the worship during.

My take? Worship isn't all about me, you or us, it's about Him. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Musicmaster]

as you proved it here...

Now you ask...

adding a ...

and an...

As you can tell by now, I'm not in the mood.

If you recall, your original question was...

Which my answer was...

My take? Worship isn't all about me, you or us, it's about Him. Let's just leave it at that.

Well, I didn't realize it was a mood question.

Generally speaking to everyone here, just so you know, my saying that praise isn't worship, and vice versa, that doesn't define either one. It simply says that they are exclusive rather than one and the same.

There's no trick behind the question. If one is going to train up a new believer, how do you define worship? What is it?

What's the difference in the character, content, or whatever other descriptor that may apply, if any, between individual and corporate worship?

If this is too difficult, or one simply doesn't know, then just say so rather than to demonize the person and/or the question itself. I'm just trying to get a feel for what others here think about the subject, which I think is very important. Some may see it as something "I just don't talk about it" type thing, that's fine too. There are people who don't talk to even family members about their feelings, emotions, love and a number of topics that, to them, are just things there's no need to speak about.

So, for those who like talking about something of this magnitude of importance, please share your thoughts.

MM

 

[Siloam]

There's no trick behind the question. If one is going to train up a new believer, how do you define worship? What is it?

What's the difference in the character, content, or whatever other descriptor that may apply, if any, between individual and corporate worship?

Consider how worship is different when by ones-self, when one is with a small group, and when one is with a congregation.

Singley:
Worship consists of reading and meditating on His Word and how it relates to me and guides me, THEN acting on His Word, learning about Him by doing His will. Successes and failures are where lessons are truly learned.
Until we place truths into action, truths are only lessons presented, it remains for us to make them lessons learned by doing.
Praise is integral to this.

Corporately (Small Groups)
Lifting up others and allowing them to lift me up by sharing thoughts and concerns. Reading His word together and discussing meaning and application. Aid brothers as the Spirit leads. Much guidance to new Brothers, and those who need growth happens at this level.

Corporately (Large Group)
Worship includes hearing His Word and examining whether my understanding aligns with others. Where there are significant differences, examine closer to to correct self (if necessary). My views needn't be copies of my brother's, or the preachers, but I need to know where I might need increased understanding. Committing (and fulfilling commitment) to the body of Christ and support the ministry of the local church.
Rejoicing with God's people and sharing my zeal for the Lord and praising His victories is integral hers.

One is worshiping whenever one does the Lord's will.

 

[Musicmaster]

Consider how worship is different when by ones-self, when one is with a small group, and when one is with a congregation.

Singley:
Worship consists of reading and meditating on His Word and how it relates to me and guides me, THEN acting on His Word, learning about Him by doing His will. Successes and failures are where lessons are truly learned.
Until we place truths into action, truths are only lessons presented, it remains for us to make them lessons learned by doing.
Praise is integral to this.

Corporately (Small Groups)
Lifting up others and allowing them to lift me up by sharing thoughts and concerns. Reading His word together and discussing meaning and application. Aid brothers as the Spirit leads. Much guidance to new Brothers, and those who need growth happens at this level.

Corporately (Large Group)
Worship includes hearing His Word and examining whether my understanding aligns with others. Where there are significant differences, examine closer to to correct self (if necessary). My views needn't be copies of my brother's, or the preachers, but I need to know where I might need increased understanding. Committing (and fulfilling commitment) to the body of Christ and support the ministry of the local church.
Rejoicing with God's people and sharing my zeal for the Lord and praising His victories is integral hers.

One is worshiping whenever one does the Lord's will.

Thank you, Siloam. That was a really good breakdown.

So, if I put together what you have shared, you see worship as a way of life, in daily living, with God's word as the guide, people as fellows with whom you walk beside and with, and mutuality in all things corporate. I like it.

For some time how, I have shared with various people and groups what Jesus said:

John 4:19-23

19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

That's the core essence to worship. Spirit and Truth. They describe a way of life, not just some activity in a special purpose place orchestrated by a program, or a ceremony, or anything else apart from a life lived in Christ. Who better can live a life of worship in and through us than the Spirit of the Lord enlivening something in us that only He is the Source?

Good stuff, Siloam. Thanks again for sharing. Granted, the question is a tough one to capture with words, but how you put it gives others a more practical way of seeing what can become what is beyond words that the Lord can make more real and meaningful; that which defies lingual description.

Wow. Good stuff.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Here is something that I found encouraging:

Lifestyle of Worship

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

This too hit upon what is quoted from the words of Jesus:

Worship in Spirit and Truth

 

[Musicmaster]

The problem of evil.

There's a biggie. It's on the mind of most unbelievers I've ever met.

Nowadays, when they ask me how a loving and all-powerful God could allow so much evil and suffering in this world, and why He doesn't do something about it all, I say to them that He is going to do something about it, but only in His time, and in His manner of choosing. He's coming back to this earth to rule and reign, and all those evil and wicked deeds done by all those despots and wicked people, it will all be judged righteously after His rule and reign upon this earth.

After all, being sovereign means that God does things His way, not ours.

Therein is the biggest problem most people have with God...even some professing believers...God's sovereignty. They all want Him doing things their way. They demand that for God to be benevolent and powerful, He has to do this and that in such and such manner.

What they really want is a god who is a life form lower than a cockroach, one that will do all that they so desire rather than for there to be a God who is higher than all His creation.

Huh! Imagine that...they want an idol, the stories of which they can fabricate from their own imaginations, just like mythology. Hey, that's already going on in paganism. Asian shrines are cropping up all around this area, with their gleaming white idols, and behind every one of those idols is a demon they can't see in this life, but that they will see if they end up cast into the fire with them all.

They need Jesus...the Sovereign Lord who is not subject to the whims and demands of my neighbors...

Whew! What a relief.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Adding to my post on the problem of harm, many people don't seem to realize that the Lord extends to ALL evil-doers the same grace He extended to us before we came to accept His salvation. Evil-doers can still be saved, and if God struck down all evil-doers when we did evil, we too would have been struck down at the point of doing evil in our own pasts, and none would have opportunity to be saved.

It seems that rational thought escapes so much of humanity, which lends ample evidence to the workings of the enemies of our souls in the lives of all humanity. So, when someone is focused only on the evils of the worst of sinners, they are demonstrating their own depraved lack in realizing that they too are worthy of death, as are we all. Their failure to give praise to God for His mercy He pours out on all of us by not giving to us what we really deserve, that's just something they'll have to grapple with on their own, if and/or until they get to the point in their existence that they take a more serious look at themselves.

The day is coming when the Lord will stop the greater evils in this world, and at the end of that Kingdom, the rebellion of the wicked will still rise up, so a pristine environment still won't satisfy the evil desires of men and women when such evils are no longer a problem.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Perusing various of the "prophesy" websites and club venues, it's an interesting study to observe the flavor of false spiritual superiority and thinly veiled intellectual arrogance so many of them tout in their mannerisms of speech.

When Jesus spoke, He did so with simplicity, very much like taking a child by the hand and leading them to the fountain for a drink, and holding the valve for them so they can satisfy their thirst.

We've all seen those who would take the child, put a blindfold over their eyes, spin them around until they fall down, and then have them feel about blindly and disoriented for the fountain, and then keeping the valve shut off until they figure it out for themselves since they are seeking the "unseen."

Yes, there are great depths to the word of God, but there is also simplicity. I love the simplicity that is in Jesus, and the depths that He gives to us through our fellowship with Him.

It's quite amazing as to how much volume has been given to the second coming of Christ...about 20% of the entire Bible speaks of that event, according to Dr. John Barnett and Dr. John MacArthur. Of course, I don't buy MacArthur's having written off America as being finished as a nation. That's entirely up to God. Our service to the Lord isn't based upon our economy, politics, evolutionary theory, latest cook book claims about cholesterol cooking, et al.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The ongoing phenomenon of mask-wearing continues to amaze me, especially when so many people couple together with reality the assumption that masks have any measurable effect upon viral infection. The lies behind it all still have so many out there wearing the uncomfortable things, and summer is going to really show many just how much discomfort they will bring.



For an injection of reality, see the article located on the CDC.GOV website that talks about studies dating back to 1946 that show no measurable (significant) difference with infection rates between wearing and not wearing masks. If masks were effective, then there would be far fewer environmental suits sold to the medical and bio-hazard communities.

This ties in nicely with a desire we should all have to pursue truth in all things, as Paul instructed:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Yes, there is a context that verse is couched within, but some things simply defy constraints to context.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Well, I didn't realize it was a mood question.

Generally speaking to everyone here, just so you know, my saying that praise isn't worship, and vice versa, that doesn't define either one. It simply says that they are exclusive rather than one and the same.

There's no trick behind the question. If one is going to train up a new believer, how do you define worship? What is it?

What's the difference in the character, content, or whatever other descriptor that may apply, if any, between individual and corporate worship?

If this is too difficult, or one simply doesn't know, then just say so rather than to demonize the person and/or the question itself. I'm just trying to get a feel for what others here think about the subject, which I think is very important. Some may see it as something "I just don't talk about it" type thing, that's fine too. There are people who don't talk to even family members about their feelings, emotions, love and a number of topics that, to them, are just things there's no need to speak about.

So, for those who like talking about something of this magnitude of importance, please share your thoughts.

MM

Hello Musicmaster;

You know I'm a church going man and have always been throughout my life. It grew me by receiving the love, support, mentoring and being a member in the body of Christ. This helped me recognize my spiritual gift of helps at a young age and led me to my calling. But with this I have also learned problems that go with attending church, the people, politics, whatever, regardless, it remains about God as the reason we gather.

I know you are a biblicist, and an anointed one. Therefore, you know the meaning and benefit, Biblically, of corporate gatherings, praise, worship and all that goes into attending church.

But do I get the feeling because of your past experience with attending or serving in the church, the issues with "people" or whatever reasons in the church that you don't attend? Please share your feelings.

If you have already explained this in our previous posts then bear with me because the posts are many and many.

God bless you, brother and your family.

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello Musicmaster;

You know I'm a church going man and have always been throughout my life. It grew me by receiving the love, support, mentoring and being a member in the body of Christ. This helped me recognize my spiritual gift of helps at a young age and led me to my calling. But with this I have also learned problems that go with attending church, the people, politics, whatever, regardless, it remains about God as the reason we gather.

I know you are a biblicist, and an anointed one. Therefore, you know the meaning and benefit, Biblically, of corporate gatherings, praise, worship and all that goes into attending church.

But do I get the feeling because of your past experience with attending or serving in the church, the issues with "people" or whatever reasons in the church that you don't attend? Please share your feelings.

If you have already explained this in our previous posts then bear with me because the posts are many and many.

God bless you, brother and your family.

Bob, I didn't realize that anything had oozed out through my conversation about worship...at least, that would lead to any idea that I had something against the corporate gathering, whether in buildings or not. I'm all for people being a part of whatever gathering they so desire so long as they are being fed. I gather with other believers every week myself.

If I recall, I believe I had mentioned in another post, likely in another thread, my problem with and hand full of institutionalists down through the years who see the institutional model as the only legitimate model for the gathering of believers and the expression of the Church on this earth. I flatly reject that. It's a type of arrogance rooted in what clearly is man-made as opposed to God-breathed.

The Lord can and does make use of whatever He so chooses, and whomsoever He so chooses, so for me to disparage something the Lord can use for His purposes, I've learned to keep my mouth shut, and listen...recalling that the arch angel in the book of Daniel, rather than to bring a railing accusation against that prince demon, he called upon the Lord's own rebuke. The Lord used a man like pharaoh, so He can certainly use a man like me and whatever and whomever He so chooses.

Yes, institutionalism has its pitfalls, but, then, so does everything else where fallible people come together.

Life is too short to get hung up on trivialities and squabbles over who is a part of whatever. What matters is with Whom we align ourselves in all aspects of our lives.

I do appreciate your asking. Perhaps my phraseology does, at times, seem to hint at something unintended in my meaning. It never hurts to ask. Yes, I have served on ministry teams in church organizations for many years, as well as Varsity Glee clubs for music, etc., but have been pushed out into the wilderness by the Hand of the Lord, and for reasons that likely are rooted in my questioning Him many years ago about what it all meant, and if that was the sum total of all that we are as a corporate body. I was yearning so profoundly for something more meaningful with fellow believers, so I wasn't careful about what I asked of the Lord. The journey He has led me on ever since has been so far beyond anything I could possibly have discovered on my own. I asked, and He answered in a BIG way.

So, I will stop now while I can, because dare I keep typing, this post would not save due to textual limits set up in the backend database software on the server for this site.

Blessings to you and yours, brother.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The date-setting kooks and whacko's are still out there. I just saw a video claiming that there are indications of Christ's returning around May 14 of this year.

Boy, it never ends, does it? Their rationale is that a generation, according to Ps 91:10, is about 70 to 80 years, and that since Israel becoming a nation in 1948, that places the end of the "fig tree" generation at 2028, and minus the seven years tribulation, that places it at May 14, 2021.

The video didn't state as to how they calculated that, be it the Gregorian calendar of 365.25 day years, or the more ancient calendar of 360 lunar days.

Either way, they continue to ignore Jesus:

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Even more astounding are those who, rather than to chastise and rebuke with the words of Christ, they go along with it, never realizing WHY the Lord didn't want man or angels to know the day nor hour.

Imagine telling your kids to be good if they want to go on summer vacation to their favorite theme park. Talk about poor parenting...

I would want my children being godly children regardless of any knowledge for what is possibly coming. Our children are not donkeys with a carrot dangling before their eye, just out of reach to keep them motivated to move forward.

The Lord wants those in His house who love Him freely rather than those who simply wanted to avoid immanent suffering through a tribulation that was about to start.

When will people ever learn to stop date-setting, and just live for Christ Jesus no matter what their eschatology? Just live for Christ Jesus out of simple love and admiration because He is WORTHY!

Amen?

MM

 

[crossnote]

What's sad is when the date comes and goes and Jesus has not come, yet their 'followers' remain loyal as they prepare themselves for the next false date given by their leader.

 

[Major]

Trap? Me? Do I really look that sinister?

No, actually, I have asked that question of others over the years just to see how they see "corporate worship." It's not always the same in different people's thinking. Some lump praise in with worship as if they are one and the same, which they are not.

So, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the matter. Is that so bad? Why would my being "churched" or "unchurched" have anything to do with it; given that not everyone sees it all the same way?

Ok, how about this: What does worship look like when you're alone with God, and what does it look like in the corporate setting?

That should be less sinister sounding, is it not? Sheesh...

lol I just wanted your take on it, that's all.

MM

Well.....your sword does give a hint of combat!

 

[Major]

What's sad is when the date comes and goes and Jesus has not come, yet their 'followers' remain loyal as they prepare themselves for the next false date given by their leader.

Deut. 18:20...........
“But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

In days of old, these false prophets weren’t merely dismissed as crackpots, nor were they given another chance to prophesy correctly. They were stoned to death for their evil deeds.

WHY was God so severe????

I believe that it is because God was not to be made fun of, nor was He to be made out to be someone’s fool. God is not to be mocked or blasphemed. God is Sovereign, Holy, Just, and perfect in His ways. When God speaks to a prophet concerning a future event, that event will come to pass, without fail. His Word is true.

God tells us not to set dates and He has a real good reason for this restriction: His Word is at stake. Those who set dates invoke God’s Word as the giver of that date. When that particular day comes and goes and the event doesn’t occur as prophesied, God’s Word is seen by many as being false. God actually puts more emphasis on His Word than on His name. Even professing Christians begin to doubt His Word as these dates continually come and go and the Rapture hasn’t occurred.​

 

[Major]

The date-setting kooks and whacko's are still out there. I just saw a video claiming that there are indications of Christ's returning around May 14 of this year.

Boy, it never ends, does it? Their rationale is that a generation, according to Ps 91:10, is about 70 to 80 years, and that since Israel becoming a nation in 1948, that places the end of the "fig tree" generation at 2028, and minus the seven years tribulation, that places it at May 14, 2021.

The video didn't state as to how they calculated that, be it the Gregorian calendar of 365.25 day years, or the more ancient calendar of 360 lunar days.

Either way, they continue to ignore Jesus:

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Even more astounding are those who, rather than to chastise and rebuke with the words of Christ, they go along with it, never realizing WHY the Lord didn't want man or angels to know the day nor hour.

Imagine telling your kids to be good if they want to go on summer vacation to their favorite theme park. Talk about poor parenting...

I would want my children being godly children regardless of any knowledge for what is possibly coming. Our children are not donkeys with a carrot dangling before their eye, just out of reach to keep them motivated to move forward.

The Lord wants those in His house who love Him freely rather than those who simply wanted to avoid immanent suffering through a tribulation that was about to start.

When will people ever learn to stop date-setting, and just live for Christ Jesus no matter what their eschatology? Just live for Christ Jesus out of simple love and admiration because He is WORTHY!

Amen?

MM

It has always been the nature of man to blame God.

In today’s society God receives the brunt of the blame for just about everything, including the predictions by the false prophets.

When God’s children are sinful He gets the blame. If His children refuse to be the salt and light on this perishing planet, the lost won’t hear His Word.

God is diminished in the minds of those who are perishing each time a believer fails to stand up for Him. When His children set exact dates for events which have been prophesied in the Bible, but God has not given the exact date, this only reinforces doubt in the minds of those who are already in the camp of doubting Thomas because people are always looking for a reason to dismiss God.

 

[Major]

Hello Musicmaster;

You know I'm a church going man and have always been throughout my life. It grew me by receiving the love, support, mentoring and being a member in the body of Christ. This helped me recognize my spiritual gift of helps at a young age and led me to my calling. But with this I have also learned problems that go with attending church, the people, politics, whatever, regardless, it remains about God as the reason we gather.

I know you are a biblicist, and an anointed one. Therefore, you know the meaning and benefit, Biblically, of corporate gatherings, praise, worship and all that goes into attending church.

But do I get the feeling because of your past experience with attending or serving in the church, the issues with "people" or whatever reasons in the church that you don't attend? Please share your feelings.

If you have already explained this in our previous posts then bear with me because the posts are many and many.

God bless you, brother and your family.

Personally.....I like to think of myself as a Church going Biblicist. Literal and to the point!

 

[Major]

What's sad is when the date comes and goes and Jesus has not come, yet their 'followers' remain loyal as they prepare themselves for the next false date given by their leader.

You know.....I am thinking that if there was more stoning of false, lying (so called) prophets, there would then begin to be a whole lot less false. lying prophets.

 

[crossnote]

Deut. 18:20...........
“But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

In days of old, these false prophets weren’t merely dismissed as crackpots, nor were they given another chance to prophesy correctly. They were stoned to death for their evil deeds.

WHY was God so severe????

I believe that it is because God was not to be made fun of, nor was He to be made out to be someone’s fool. God is not to be mocked or blasphemed. God is Sovereign, Holy, Just, and perfect in His ways. When God speaks to a prophet concerning a future event, that event will come to pass, without fail. His Word is true.

God tells us not to set dates and He has a real good reason for this restriction: His Word is at stake. Those who set dates invoke God’s Word as the giver of that date. When that particular day comes and goes and the event doesn’t occur as prophesied, God’s Word is seen by many as being false. God actually puts more emphasis on His Word than on His name. Even professing Christians begin to doubt His Word as these dates continually come and go and the Rapture hasn’t occurred.​

Then there is man's insatiable appetite to know the future...to be in control of his destiny, yet God says 'trust Me'.

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD. And because of these abominations the LORD your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do this.
(Deu 18:10-14)