Exactly.
The Assembly and the Bride
- Thread starter Grant Melville
- Start date
I'm sorry...I don't have a clue what you're going on about...
You have not yet faced the the question yet .
As to boasting ;many boast in the 'original texts' or language ' and while not directly in their knowledge of Greek or Hebrew.
Did not Saul of Tarsus have more to boast in than us all?
Yet he had the original text and Hebrew was his mother tounge . Yet did he understand the scriptures by them? Mot at all/.
In truth he so did not understand the scriptures that he persecuted the church and was in agreement with Stephens stoning and thought it was Gods will.
I do not say do not learn Hebrew or Greek .But you should be aware that they ALONE will not and do not give you the understanding that you seek .
The case in point is this one. DOOR or GATE?
The word used by your own post says it can be EITHER one or the other .
That I will not nor do dispute . But a gate is not a door . and each has different functions .So while the word you say that is used can be one or the other .They cannot be either .
The question then is by the original language you have surmised they can be both . or it does not matter which .
That is not the case.
Its that you have simply jumped to the conclusion that it does not matter .
But a language that is limited that it only has one word for both when translated has to chose one or the other .
By what criteria then do you choose one over the other ? Clearly not simply by the word itself . But then by the Spirit of truth .
by which we "rightly divide the Word of God" and use the right one even as Jesus did .
"I am the door"
".....the gates of hell shall not prevail against it "
You cannot say the door of hell. For it is not accurate to the reality or to the mind of God.
Am I then boasting in knowing the mind of God? No not really but it is the Spirit of God who knoweth the mind of God and he it is who inspired the writers to so write .
In as much then as the Spirit of God was so needed to inspire men to write the Word of God then the Spirit of God is as needed to understand what is w ritten. Be it in English ,Hebrew or Greek/.
in Christ
gerald
John 10:9 "I am the door,by me if any man enter in,he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture" KJV.
It would seem that the translators of the NIV are as confused as to what is a gate and what is a door for the same reasons.Their over reliance on their knowledge or understanding of the original language rather than HE who leads us into all truth .
If then you can show that a door is the same as a gate in English and explain why the Lord used DOOR when speaking of himself and gate as in the gates of hell and with your explanation of what is a gate and what is a door that harmonises with both .Then I would listen to you in this matter .
In Christ
gerald
What do you not understand?
Show me where Jesus is the door of heaven? let alone gate .
in Christ
gerald
Again KJV > I am the DOOR .
The same reason you think a gate is a door is due to the fact that the translators of the NIV mistranslated it .
I simply believe it.
I also know that a door is not a gate . For a gate is on an external wall in nigh on all cases .
A door is to a house or in one.
in Christ
gerald
Its surprising how little leaven you need to change thew whole lump .
I do not dispute that the word is the same for one or the other .That does not mean that a door or a gate is the same thing .
The Word of God is not fro my own interpretation or indeed my own translation.
What are words? If not expressions of thought .
You are simply asserting what you think but do not even look at the differences between a gate and door .
You then base your authority on your understanding of the original langauge . I do not .I simply base it on the truth . or the Spirit of truth that inspired men to so write it .
A very different proposition.
Jesus said I am the way because he IS the way .
For you need to consider the context in which he said that .It was in reply to his disciples to demand for the Lord to show them the way .
When Mary said she believed that the Lord would raise him up at the last day or the day of the resurection . He replied to her "I am the ressurection ....."
When one of the disciples said to Him "show us the father " He replied "Have I been with you so long that you do not know me......."
in Christ
gerald
A city has a wall. and the gates of such a city are the weakest point of the wall and so are the most heavily defended .
When Jesus said "I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it " I doubt very much if the word so used was as you say 'Pulon'
Yet you do not directly state that is the word used in this instance.
I would hazard the thought that its the same word as used in the verse "I am the door"
But I would be interested to know which or what word is used and the reference of it.
"Open to me the gates of righteousness........" There are any number of 'gates' quoted in scripture . Then it si for the Scriptures to interprate what is a door and what is a gate and why the scriptures then make a difference.
Unless of course if you are asserting the error of Islam who think that only the Koran in Arabic is the true .
and that only the scriptures in the original texts and langauge are the true? Then you are gravely mistaken.
For as I pointed out to a Muslem once God is not an Arab.
Nor indeed is he and Englishman .
Nor in fact is he a Jew . Or Hebrew.
Then what language did he speak when he said the words "Let there be light"?
For while is it is translated in Hebrew for the Hebrews and for all after.
That does not mean God spoke in Hebrew.
God ahs then his own language so to speak .
and as the scriptures say of it "He humbles himself to speak to the sons of men "
The message then remains the same for God is the same . It is then the accuracy of the translation according to the mind of God that is then important.
But I can think of 5 reasons why we can have 5 different versions that are not accurate .
But again this is for another post entirely .
For this post I would humbly suggest that you consider what is a gate and what is a door in your own mother tounge. first. Before you consider any langauge you have learnt later.
in Christ
gerald
I seriously now doubt that you understand what you say you understand of the original langauge.
You are simply stating at face value that the word you say that is used can be either for a gate or a door .
The Lord in ENGLISH is NEVER used or described himself as a GATE .But a DOOR.
A true BORN child of God is a temple of the Lord and was not made by hands .
"Know ye not that your body ........"
By your argument about the city of God .
Jesus said I am the door or if by your argument the gate .
Did he not also say there is only ONE door?
Then how be it by your argument are there now 12 gates?
You see how you cannot have either . Jesus is the DOOR . the one door .
The city has 12 GATES .
I hold the to the truth that even as God is consistant with Himself so too His Word is consistant with itself for it was written according to the "mind of God"
Therefore if you cannot reconcile how there can be but ONE 'gate' Jesus but the city has 12 gates then you should hold your assertion that Jesus is a gate .
in Christ
gerald
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Should not a man boast in the Lord?
Not in his understanding(?) of Greek and Hebrew?
in Christ
gerald
This has become one of those discussions. I should stop starting threads. 
Hi Grant,This has become one of those discussions. I should stop starting threads.
The foundation upon which we each stand is Christ Jesus, our Saviour, Lord and Head.
May His Name be glorified, His Name praised, and may we all grow in grace and truth and in the knowledge of Him.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
This has become one of those discussions. I should stop starting threads.
This has become one of those discussions. I should stop starting threads.
Not at all.
The subject of the Bride of Christ is much neglected as are many other things that one could call the meat of the word.
Why such subjects seem to descend to one of "those " is because the devil has had a feiled day for too long and has "while men slept" been sowing his errors and building strongholds in the minds of men and principally using the scriptures themselves . So as to blind mens eyes to the truth .
This not only applies to the unsaved .But to the saved also .
For while he could not stop a person being saved he will still endevour to blind the mind so for instance so they will not see or comprehend with all the saints what is the exceeding greatness of his power that is towards us who believe ."
This discussion is not really one of "those " internable and vain debates . But at root lies the problem of badly translated bibles on the one hand and an over reliance on Hebrew and Greek (alone) on the other .
in Christ
gerald
I am so sorry for your not being able to understand simple things.
Brother, maybe what you are experiencing is the same thing Jesus experienced, and that is "he marveled at their unbelief." (Mark 6:6)This has become one of those discussions. I should stop starting threads.
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What d
The Hebrew or Greek?
or the difference between a door and a gate?
You say you understand such a simple thing .Yet you have neither proved that one is the other or explained why the Lord used a door in one place and in another place a gate in his teaching.(as also all scripture)
You and others have simply asserted that the word used in the original langauge can be one or the other .
That you assume that they are both the same when life reality and your own house says they are not.
Let alone the scriptures.
I find that very strange though I am not surprised given the over reliance on the original text/language rather than trusting the Lord.
in Christ
gerald
What do I not understand?
The Hebrew or Greek?
or the difference between a door and a gate?
You say you understand such a simple thing .Yet you have neither proved that one is the other or explained why the Lord used a door in one place and in another place a gate in his teaching.(as also all scripture)
You and others have simply asserted that the word used in the original langauge can be one or the other .
That you assume that they are both the same when life reality and your own house says they are not.
Let alone the scriptures.
I find that very strange though I am not surprised given the over reliance on the original text/language rather than trusting the Lord.
in Christ
gerald
That they did not believe Jesus when he said I am the door ?
or by you that he said I am the gate ?
I do not believe he said gate at all or meant to.
I do believe however that an over reliance on ones own knowledge of Hebrew or Greek will blind you to the truth as it is in English .
With every ones assertions ,no one is even attempting to reconcile the different uses of door and gate in scripture and by the Lord Himself .
I would even doubt and do that anyone has bothered to go and find out what words are used in scripture when gate is used or door .
But have simply blindly followed a bad translation .
In Christ
gerald
What do you consider more important, the original word in which scripture is written, or the author who spoke it. Which of these two hold the answer to its meaning?
I have never seen anyone so obsessed with the difference between a "door" or a "gate". Are you more smarter than the translators of the NIV Bible? Maybe you should translate your own Bible.
Joh 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. (NIV)
Trusting in the Lord is in what the Lord says to our heart when we are in his presence to what scripture says, not what our carnal logical minds reason scripture to say. These two are not compatible to each other, and are opposed completely. If we relied on our own physical minds to discern truth from error, then only the logically smart people would have the truth, which is what scripture debunks.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;