see...your curse has ended
yaaaay!
Views on discipline/spanking?
- Thread starter CassieKFamily
- Start date
yaaaay!
In NZ we have kiwisaver. It's because a lot of people don't remember save for their retirement, (as who really knows how long we are going to live?) that a national savings plan was put in place. Its your own money plus contributions from your employer and it gains interest and invested in whatever provider you choose. You can opt in or out. Cos the govt is not necessarily going to look after everyone in the future.
Anyway.
When parents abuse their children that is a serious issue. They will always claim they were disciplining them. It happens far too often, which is why smacking has been outlawed. Hospitals were regularly seeing children with traumatic injuries and emotional wounds and the parents would lie about it and deny they had anything to do with it.
And of course the children themselves were not believed. But if a child beat up a parent...well. This is what they will do when they are older and bigger than the parent, if the parent abuses the child.
Anyway.
When parents abuse their children that is a serious issue. They will always claim they were disciplining them. It happens far too often, which is why smacking has been outlawed. Hospitals were regularly seeing children with traumatic injuries and emotional wounds and the parents would lie about it and deny they had anything to do with it.
And of course the children themselves were not believed. But if a child beat up a parent...well. This is what they will do when they are older and bigger than the parent, if the parent abuses the child.
Kids who are not disciplined will behave that way. Kids definitely need discipline. not spanking does not mean not disciplining. I think that's where people get confused. They think not spanking means no discipline. Spanking is just one way of disciplining but not the only way. I was never spanked as a kid but I was disciplined and I never talked back or behaved like a spoiled brat.
I've also seen a lot of spanked kids become hardened and just figure out ways to get better at NOT getting caught. LOL It doesn't change their behavior at all. They just get better at lying and hiding and sneaking.
Also too, spanked kids will misbehave more in school because they know they can't be hit there. So they get a thrill out of misbehaving and not getting hit because of it. It's a novelty to them so they want to push it as much as they can. They feel a little bit of power over the adult. Once kids are spanked as a form of discipline, they become conditioned to only respond to that. It's harder to get a mostly spanked child to respond to other forms of discipline. Especially kids from troubled homes who's parents have a heavy/frequent spanking hand. Not impossible, just takes more work. It doesn't feel serious/real to the kid until they get hit. So they don't listen. That's why some people who spank, if they try not spanking, they will say it didn't work. It will work, the kid just has to be conditioned to respond to non physical discipline that's all. It takes time and consistency. Starting the kid out from the beginning without spanking and using other forms of discipline is easier.
I read that they are going to run out of social security when the next generation is ready to retire. That is very scary! I guess I better be ready to work till I'm 90. LOLI understand. It is stressful to watch the bounces.
I have another friend who has a military retirement, a city pension, social security and a small annuity his deceased wife left him.
He lives modestly in a mobile home he owns on a rented lot. He still must clerk 3 days a week at a market to make ends meet.
Of course this is a very expensive area to live in and he could move to North Dakota, but he doesn’t want to move because this is where his friends and family are.
Edit: I should add, he’s not complaining, he is happy in Christ, I am complaining for him and the injustice of it all.
Don't come to California whatever you do! Rent is $3,000 a month for 1 bedroom. That's why there's so many homeless.
Wow that's horrible! Sorry that happened to you! I think the curse has been broken whether you have kids or not. ou are determined to not spank because of what happened to you.
yep.
They don't know how to discipline any other way.
For discipline to work, needs to be consistent. For some parents, they are too lazy to train their child to do right. Instead, they only spank/smack their child when they do wrong. There's no positive reinforcement, only negative.
Children respond to rewards when they do right. I know it sounds a bit behaviouristic, but this is what works when it's done consistently. After the initial school master type carrot and stick rewards, the children learn, although it might only be on the surface, to get a child to really WANT to do right, is to nurture and encourage them from the heart.
Hello VictorianLady;
As a Christian man co-existing in this world I'm an optimist, always have been with God, but I am also a realist knowing that God doesn't promise "easy cruising."
"Easy cruising" for example, meaning not having the money to gather the things our family needed. Not having enough food in the cabinet or fridge until payday. Lacking reconciliation in our relationships or not knowing right from wrong.
Those of us who were working in 1983 were told the same thing about social security running out and I was deeply concerned about my future. How will I take care of our well being? But I was always told in the Bible that God promises to provide no matter what our circumstances or needs are.
So when I was young in my working career, what did God say about our financial situation for the future? Many times we were hearing the wrong message about finances that led to despair. This is/was the enemy, that punk the devil, leaving me fearful for the future.
God helped us by seeking advice to help prepare putting money aside whether 10%, a few bucks each month, contribute to our employee stock savings plan, etc...and keeping our debt ratio low. If we couldn't put any money aside and there were many times through the years, that's ok. One year we had a tax return liability of $10,000.00+ !! The overall target goal was consistency with feeding our nest egg.
America may very well exhaust this social security benefit (could be by the end of 2038) but our government is resilient and will come up with another form of social benefit for the retired. At 65 and 64 years of age, we managed to keep our debt ratio at almost 0% and the nest egg has done well. We're not rich but are comfortable and can put food on the table.
With God there is peace of mind. With peace of mind we can think clearer. With our nephews (19 and 16) and niece (5) there hasn't been any spankings even from their parents, no need to raise our voices and though things are not always perfect, the kids are secure, comfortable, safe, nurtured and respectful of their elders in our home.
God bless you and your family.
TransformedinChrist
Account Closed
This is a very interesting topic. I believe it is geared to the Spirit [how is it demonstrated and what nature it is done in] towards every child with using discernment. Define spanking? Repetitively 4, 9 or 10 times? Or once? I don't endorse physical punishment but I certainly understand in which cases is necessary. For example a child running across a street, or a hot stove. Consequences are a natural order of life. You can remain purely positive all you want but in reality consequences can mean a bullet kills someone with an unintended handling of a gun by a child, a hot stove and accidently spilling boiling water on themselves, a knife that enters through a hand trying to obtain independence without parental consent. Consequences don't offer a soft blow in the world we live in [as a dog trainer we call this natural consequences]. Same as a finger in a socket [being electrocuted]. There are SO many dangers in the world we live in today and it's getting dangerous by the moment with the now nuclear war at risk.
Spare the rot, spoil the child. I believe people can do excessively and be mean spirited when using such punishment for unwanted behaviors. God disciples us as our Father and yes He gives us spiritual spankings. It hurts! We shouldn't despise correction and discipline - only fools to that. With discipline comes understanding and reverence.
Now my daughters maybe a hand full of times did I ever use a spank. We discussed why. I think if one should spank it you absolutely need to have a sound mind and clarity. Why and what do you hope to teach? Will this be a teaching moment? I am sorry but the list above if talking doesn't work as we know kids can and will test the limits, boundaries and be rebellious - it's you're responsibility to keep them alive and SAFE.
Catering to "hurt feelings" does not suit a child who is scared or crippled for life because talking and explaining didn't get through or injuring someone else.
I was a child in which it was excessively used and abused. If parents have a problem with rage, angry, impulsiveness etc. It definitely needs to be taken up with a Professional, Pastor and family therapist.
I see no reason why punishment [correction] would or should be withheld. Our young generation gets away with murder - literally nowadays. Calling CPS on their parents, teachers getting involved and meddling in family business [pertaining to lifestyles kids "think" they want] on and on. I believe in tough love with compassion and sound doctrinal truth of God's Word.
You don't want to break a child's spirit and exasperate them but you also don't want them to have free rein and never wake up to the reality that natural consequences can harm, hurt and even kill you.
Warmly in Christ
Spare the rot, spoil the child. I believe people can do excessively and be mean spirited when using such punishment for unwanted behaviors. God disciples us as our Father and yes He gives us spiritual spankings. It hurts! We shouldn't despise correction and discipline - only fools to that. With discipline comes understanding and reverence.
Now my daughters maybe a hand full of times did I ever use a spank. We discussed why. I think if one should spank it you absolutely need to have a sound mind and clarity. Why and what do you hope to teach? Will this be a teaching moment? I am sorry but the list above if talking doesn't work as we know kids can and will test the limits, boundaries and be rebellious - it's you're responsibility to keep them alive and SAFE.
Catering to "hurt feelings" does not suit a child who is scared or crippled for life because talking and explaining didn't get through or injuring someone else.
I was a child in which it was excessively used and abused. If parents have a problem with rage, angry, impulsiveness etc. It definitely needs to be taken up with a Professional, Pastor and family therapist.
I see no reason why punishment [correction] would or should be withheld. Our young generation gets away with murder - literally nowadays. Calling CPS on their parents, teachers getting involved and meddling in family business [pertaining to lifestyles kids "think" they want] on and on. I believe in tough love with compassion and sound doctrinal truth of God's Word.
You don't want to break a child's spirit and exasperate them but you also don't want them to have free rein and never wake up to the reality that natural consequences can harm, hurt and even kill you.
Warmly in Christ
I found that applying the Golden Rule, a lot of kindly patience, giving your child genuine respect, and modeling godliness will go a long way in bringing up a good person. Never discipline a child in anger; calm down and lovingly explain the situation before administering discipline. Never shout or raise your voice except in an emergency where the child is in danger. Speak always in an even tone. Finally let your child know that your job is to explain things to them, but you only have to tell them something once. After that, you are free to apply discipline for failures to perform or violations of rules or trust.
These are principles I learned as a leader in the military. I applied them to my parenting, and my 28 year old son is an outstanding man.
I was a child in which it was excessively used and abused. If parents have a problem with rage, angry, impulsiveness etc. It definitely needs to be taken up with a Professional, Pastor and family therapist. I see no reason why punishment [correction] would or should be withheld. Our young generation gets away with murder - literally nowadays. Calling CPS on their parents, teachers getting involved and meddling in family business [pertaining to lifestyles kids "think" they want] on and on. I believe in tough love with compassion and sound doctrinal truth of God's Word. You don't want to break a child's spirit and exasperate them but you also don't want them to have free rein and never wake up to the reality that natural consequences can harm, hurt and even kill you.
Warmly in Christ
Hello TransformedinChrist and BibleLover;
This is not easy to articulate so please bear with me as I try. From reading both your applications of discipline in rearing your child or children, these would have to develop from lessons and hard knock experience learned from the parent.
I'm sorry TransformedinChrist went through a tough childhood and the hard knocks may have given you discernment and wisdom in raising your daughters.
On the other hand, BibleLover's son has grown to be a fine man. As he shared he learned the principles of rearing his son as a leader in the military. My Dad, an officer major in the Air Force had a harder time instilling the discipline with me.
Being an Air Force brat, my parents struggled raising me being their first born. I was the guinea pig when my parents tried to discipline me. I got spanked a lot on the bottom, Mom and Dad did get angry and impatient with me, raised their voices and scolded me, at times without thinking.
It was really confusing for me because on the flip side they were very loving, took great care of their children and no matter what, when it came to children's events like a birthday, school plays and Little League baseball games, my parents attended every event. That went a long way with us kids.
But the moment I got mischievous or misbehaved at school my parents went from guardian angels to being angry parents. Still, it confused me.
By the time I turned 10 years old, my Dad never spanked me on the bottom again. My Mom, however, was still quick to scold me. My parents read the old Dr. Spock books on parenting but it didn't help or change much.
I confess (and I'm not humble bragging,) I was a mischievous boy in grade school and always got into foolish trouble. I was also very spoiled from being the first born so I tended to get my way. As I went into my teens (attended youth group) I got into more serious trouble.
Ironically, my siblings didn't get into as much trouble as me. I guess they were watching my example being the eldest.
I do believe God's hand was in this because my parents prayed and while at Church every week they were blessed by the witness of other parents with their children. I remember Dad and Mom would discuss it as we drove home from Church. Somehow God kept His hand on my parents and allowed them to view their mistakes in rearing me as an opportunity to be more developed in disciplining their other kids besides me.
In today's times I have sat with parents and especially single parents in the Church regarding their children. I noticed there is not so much physical abuse, but more verbal abuse to the children who seem numbed, as if they don't take the discipline serious and shrug it off.
God bless you all.
TransformedinChrist
Account Closed
I can definitely understand your confusion. I remember one time I was with my cousin and they had friends over that day. They were taunting the neighbor's dog. I however stayed out of it.
My aunt was pretty angry. I guess my Mom was told. I told my Mom it wasn't me. My cousin and his friend was doing it. I wasn't lying.
Well my Mom still spanked me. Eventhough I didn't do it and I didn't lie. But because my cousin was getting spanked - I had to as well.
I never forgot that. Not only that. Years of that devastated me and I lost so much trust with her. Consequently our relationship suffered deeply. Not only did it pass down to me [physically emptional mentally and spiritual abuse] - she also started to do it to my daughters.
The cycle of abuse doesn't stop unless God intervenes or there is help from professionals. We no longer associate or have anything to do with her.
Like I said I can remember a hand full of time where I had spanked my daughters (counting on 1 hand and it was maybe 2 spanks on the bum) for absolutely serious things that could have been devastating.
My girls now are both born again spirited filled Christian and have moved in caring for me 24/7 as I am immobile. One daughters completed her certification for PSW in college and graduated.
We always have discussed, talked, shown life lessons and pray. Even when things get heated as at times they do - we draw back to prayer and God's Word. I wasn't a perfect parent but I praise God He gave me the understanding and revelation that the abuse stops with me. It did. My daughters recall countless of times when and how I had approached them in various situations, conflicts and application of rules and boundaries.
All I had to do was look at them a certain way and they were like Mom I am sorry! The face of hurt and disappointment was enough to send them into realization that they had made a mmistake. They were extremely sensitive and I didn't have to use spanks [the willingness was already there to want fo obey]. Like I described seriously serious stuff. Not just mundane stuff.
Warmly in Christ.
I have thought about this thread lately from time to time.
A parent that lets their frustration or anger rule them and the way they discipline their children is counter productive regardless of the mode of discipline.
A parent who yells and belittles a child can be quite as abusive as one who spanks the child. It is no good telling ones self that "I never lay a hand on my child". It is still abusive, sometimes more so.
Each child is different ans will respond in his individual way. Parents also are individuals (and a unique team). So the relationship between them will be unique. A lot of parenting is done "in the moment" and it is sometimes difficult to step back and be self controlled in that moment, but it is a skill that must be developed.
However the parent team administers discipline it needs to be thoughtfully (and prayerfully) examined to ensure that it is corrective and purposeful rather than an outlet for the rage in the parent.
However the moment is handled, it is important to discern whether it is a lack of knowledge concerning correct behavior or a testing of those constraints and set aside time when neither the child nor the parent is emotionally trapped "in the moment" to talk about why the behavior was unacceptable.
A parent that lets their frustration or anger rule them and the way they discipline their children is counter productive regardless of the mode of discipline.
A parent who yells and belittles a child can be quite as abusive as one who spanks the child. It is no good telling ones self that "I never lay a hand on my child". It is still abusive, sometimes more so.
Each child is different ans will respond in his individual way. Parents also are individuals (and a unique team). So the relationship between them will be unique. A lot of parenting is done "in the moment" and it is sometimes difficult to step back and be self controlled in that moment, but it is a skill that must be developed.
However the parent team administers discipline it needs to be thoughtfully (and prayerfully) examined to ensure that it is corrective and purposeful rather than an outlet for the rage in the parent.
However the moment is handled, it is important to discern whether it is a lack of knowledge concerning correct behavior or a testing of those constraints and set aside time when neither the child nor the parent is emotionally trapped "in the moment" to talk about why the behavior was unacceptable.