What is the real value of scripture?

Major said:
Gerald.......Your past comments indicated that you DID NOT think a man needed to attend any college to improve his knowledge.

Now you just said...............
"I have clearly stated that I am NOT against education and learning Greek and Hebrew."

Then in the next sentence you said........
But I have also stated that is NOT the qualification any man of God teacher preacher or any other minister as listed in Ephesians .

Isn't that a little disingenuous? Do you see where you said one thing and then said the opposite. This is what I was saying in another post about how you say things in a "rambling" manner without tieing thoughts together.

No one said anyone need to learn Greek or Hebrew. We (I) was referring to being educated in Biblical Studies so as to be able to RIGHTLY divide the Word of God.

THINK!

If a man is moved or called to be a "nuclear weapons scientist ", do you think that he should attend some sort of higher education in that field.

If a man has the feeling that he is being lead to be a "brain surgeon", do you think that he should try and increase his knowledge of the brain before he operates on YOU?

If a man has the feeling or has been called to be an auto mechanic, do you think he should try to increase his ability before he works on YOUR car?

I am not saying that there are not wonderful men in the Christian field whose heart is right and they are doing wonderful things for their church. That is not my point at all. My point is how much greater could they be doing if they were educated in some of the finer and more detailed teaching that are found in the Scriptures.

Because they are NOT, and they listen to someone on TV or radio or read commentaries of those who have personal agendas, we have over the years seen all kinds of perverted Biblical doctrines come into the church.

As a result, TODAY the church argues over whether or not abortion is a sin.
As a result, TODAY the church argues over whether or not homosexuality is a sin.
As a result, TODAY the church argues over whether or not the death penalty is right or wrong.
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To not be against a formal education is not the same thing as being qualified for the ministry .
if I can put it in a completely another way .
You can give and not love .
But you cannot love and not give .

What you seem to not understand is that having a degree in an education and even understanding Greek and Hebrew . Does not qualify you for the ministry .Though it might make you more effective . and I use that 'might' with restrictions.

It is my observation and experience that many who go to theological seminars get filled more with mens wisdom and philosophies than they do of understanding or are equipped as the scripture says .

I would also suggest that a LOT of those 'false teachers and hirelings ' seem to have found their teachings and thinking not only from TV and such but also from once great theological colleges who have not only lost the fire but have forgotten from whence they came .
I have met sincere young men who were in a well known London theological seminar who were taught every mans opinion and 'position' now defended to the death by all the 'schools ' of theology . But not the truth!

What I said was that it is good if you if you can learn Greek and Hebrew as it can be profitable . But that does not QUALIFY you .
My reason for stating it was the life of Saul of Tarsus and the argument that followed from it.
Nor does it by the same argument , guarantee you will understand the scriptures as they should be understood nor indeed qualify you to translate them into anew version.
I would and have already done so elsewhere that even with some peoples much vaunted "better understanding" they have translated Gen 1:1 wrongly .
Form heaven TO "HEAVENS" Which not only misleads people down the wrong road but has also led others to make it "in the beginning God created the sky and the earth" (student bible)
You suggest I am rambling .Not as you might think.

In a nut shell then. People have taken a formal educational qualification and substituted that for the approval or qualification of God .
I cannot claim any originality in the matter for I believe I first read of that observation in one of Tozers books . But have simply proved the truth of it myself .Though it has always been true .

I am neither offended by people who disagree with me or do not understand me . So don't worry .In the main I take it with the good will I suppose they should have .Unless it is clearly otherwise .
I don't claim infallibility nor perfection and I hope will always approach any misunderstandings or lack of clarity as an opportunity to clarify further what I have said .

What you count as rambling though is not what it seems . For there are more people than you or I who read these posts and as such the matter in question has to be approached from every angel. But if you look closely you will find I have never gone off the subject .

Your objection to my apparent contradiction I hope I have resolved for you .

in Christ
gerald
 
GBzone said:
What is the context?

Of knowing God and ourselves .
For we know not what we shall be .But we know that when we see him we shall be like him for we shall see him as He is .
But now we see in a mirror dimly.......

The gospel however has been reduced to the barest minimum of being BORN again.
The scripture you quote hardly does it justice in this context .
For to eb BORN a child knows little or nothing .
He too does not know what eh shall be .
But is he not expected to grow?
to become a "father"?
and what then do you think it means to "know Him who is from the beginning"?
You may not know yet .
But that does not mean you cannot and clearly John was speaking to people that within 50 (?) years had become "ye fathers ye know Him who is form the beginning"!
Click to expand...
No a child begins knowing nothing much but grows...true.


Eph 4:11. And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12. to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13. until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14. so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
Eph 4:15. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
Eph 4:16. from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

Now I'm sure you are not suggesting that any who at death have not achieved this ideal will be dealt with more severely than those who have?
Where Paul teaches that 'we will know fully', he does not mean that we will know all that is to be known of God....that we will posses all knowledge, else we would be equal to God.
He means that all that God has chosen to reveal of Himself to us will finally be known to us.
I'm confident that there will be a 'feather time' where the fullest knowledge will be disseminated, so that Eph 4:13. will finally be realized by the body and bride of Christ, ie we will all be brought up to speed so to speak.
There was nothing lacking in the context in which I used 1 Cor 13:12.
 
GBzone said:
To not be against a formal education is not the same thing as being qualified for the ministry .
if I can put it in a completely another way .
You can give and not love .
But you cannot love and not give .

What you seem to not understand is that having a degree in an education and even understanding Greek and Hebrew . Does not qualify you for the ministry .Though it might make you more effective . and I use that 'might' with restrictions.

It is my observation and experience that many who go to theological seminars get filled more with mens wisdom and philosophies than they do of understanding or are equipped as the scripture says .

I would also suggest that a LOT of those 'false teachers and hirelings ' seem to have found their teachings and thinking not only from TV and such but also from once great theological colleges who have not only lost the fire but have forgotten from whence they came .
I have met sincere young men who were in a well known London theological seminar who were taught every mans opinion and 'position' now defended to the death by all the 'schools ' of theology . But not the truth!

What I said was that it is good if you if you can learn Greek and Hebrew as it can be profitable . But that does not QUALIFY you .
My reason for stating it was the life of Saul of Tarsus and the argument that followed from it.
Nor does it by the same argument , guarantee you will understand the scriptures as they should be understood nor indeed qualify you to translate them into anew version.
I would and have already done so elsewhere that even with some peoples much vaunted "better understanding" they have translated Gen 1:1 wrongly .
Form heaven TO "HEAVENS" Which not only misleads people down the wrong road but has also led others to make it "in the beginning God created the sky and the earth" (student bible)
You suggest I am rambling .Not as you might think.

In a nut shell then. People have taken a formal educational qualification and substituted that for the approval or qualification of God .
I cannot claim any originality in the matter for I believe I first read of that observation in one of Tozers books . But have simply proved the truth of it myself .Though it has always been true .

I am neither offended by people who disagree with me or do not understand me . So don't worry .In the main I take it with the good will I suppose they should have .Unless it is clearly otherwise .
I don't claim infallibility nor perfection and I hope will always approach any misunderstandings or lack of clarity as an opportunity to clarify further what I have said .

What you count as rambling though is not what it seems . For there are more people than you or I who read these posts and as such the matter in question has to be approached from every angel. But if you look closely you will find I have never gone off the subject .

Your objection to my apparent contradiction I hope I have resolved for you .

in Christ
gerald
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Sorry bud, but it is what it seems!

There was no "apparent" contradiction as it still stands because you only talked a lot around it without addressing it.
 
calvin said:
No a child begins knowing nothing much but grows...true.


Eph 4:11. And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12. to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13. until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14. so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
Eph 4:15. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
Eph 4:16. from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

Now I'm sure you are not suggesting that any who at death have not achieved this ideal will be dealt with more severely than those who have?
Where Paul teaches that 'we will know fully', he does not mean that we will know all that is to be known of God....that we will posses all knowledge, else we would be equal to God.
He means that all that God has chosen to reveal of Himself to us will finally be known to us.
I'm confident that there will be a 'feather time' where the fullest knowledge will be disseminated, so that Eph 4:13. will finally be realized by the body and bride of Christ, ie we will all be brought up to speed so to speak.
There was nothing lacking in the context in which I used 1 Cor 13:12.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true calvin.

The thought here from some, is kind of like accepting Jesus as your Saviour and becoming a Christian and that action all of a sudden gives you the ability to know all about the Scriptures without ever opening the book.
 
I had the same sort of "discussion" with one of my cousins years ago.
He was of the opinion that all of that "book larnin" don't do you no good, you just need common sense.
My response was "then what do we do with those like you who have no book learning or common sense?".
A good education is ALWAYS a benefit. Too many deride education due to plain old jealousy.

Are there bad seminaries? You betcha. So find a good one.
 
My eyes have crossed again. The OP asks - what is the real value of scripture? The very real value is that it is the truth, written by the Spirit of God. I loved Great Fictions' post - it says that along with Christ as our bridge back to God, we are given an operation manuel as to take our steps back through Christ. 99% of the variations are such as word spellings that make no steps toward taint and less than 1% are "possibly" missing translation but none of which taints the major doctrines. His example (video part 2) is that 666 is probably 616 (and as Abdicate's understanding of the actual explanation - bizmallah) that this number actually means relatively nothing in any church mission statement. We have a miraculous thing! The Word of God has come down to us without much change since the time of Moses (if you bothered to read my link). That has the only value. If you or the Devil cherry pick a scripture to twist the Word, the rest of scripture cries out, "not so".

As for the only qualifier of a minister/pastor/vicar/whatever - is a call from God. A genuine call. And he/she can't help you without Holy Spirit guidance. Is a minister's first sermon the best or his last? Or all the repeats, in between, of what scripture says.
 
Major said:
Absolutely true calvin.

The thought here from some, is kind of like accepting Jesus as your Saviour and becoming a Christian and that action all of a sudden gives you the ability to know all about the Scriptures without ever opening the book.
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WHAT! It doesn't! AHHHHHHhhhhhh....


No just kidding! :)


I like the discovery process; even when you've 'heard' preaching on a portion of scripture, there is always more to glean from it. That's the fascinating thing about the Bible. And I am so 'Bible dumb' still....

Plus we learn more when we actually apply what we heard-and allow ourselves to be accountable. I need some enourmous help in the application area...

I heard some preaching on bitterness the other night which included the life and revenge of Ahithophel (Bathsheba's Granddad).
 
Glomung said:
I had the same sort of "discussion" with one of my cousins years ago.
He was of the opinion that all of that "book larnin" don't do you no good, you just need common sense.
My response was "then what do we do with those like you who have no book learning or common sense?".
A good education is ALWAYS a benefit. Too many deride education due to plain old jealousy.

Are there bad seminaries? You betcha. So find a good one.
Click to expand...

Well said !!!
 
Silk said:
My eyes have crossed again. The OP asks - what is the real value of scripture? The very real value is that it is the truth, written by the Spirit of God. I loved Great Fictions' post - it says that along with Christ as our bridge back to God, we are given an operation manuel as to take our steps back through Christ. 99% of the variations are such as word spellings that make no steps toward taint and less than 1% are "possibly" missing translation but none of which taints the major doctrines. His example (video part 2) is that 666 is probably 616 (and as Abdicate's understanding of the actual explanation - bizmallah) that this number actually means relatively nothing in any church mission statement. We have a miraculous thing! The Word of God has come down to us without much change since the time of Moses (if you bothered to read my link). That has the only value. If you or the Devil cherry pick a scripture to twist the Word, the rest of scripture cries out, "not so".

As for the only qualifier of a minister/pastor/vicar/whatever - is a call from God. A genuine call. And he/she can't help you without Holy Spirit guidance. Is a minister's first sermon the best or his last? Or all the repeats, in between, of what scripture says.
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I agree sister!

I heard a story told a long time ago about the then Pastor of the 1st Baptist Church in Hammond Indiana, Jack Hyles. Now he went on to have the largest bus ministry in Indiana and received his doctorate as well.

But It seems that when he was a young man he felt as if God was calling him to preach. He told his pastor then about it and the Pastor invited him to preach a sermon one Sunday. When the Sunday came, Jack got up and read some Scriptures, said prayer, stood there about 3 or 4 minutes and sat down.

His pastor walked over to him where he was sitting and asked him is he was going to preach that day. Jack said, the Lord has not given me a sermon yet to preach so I thought I would just sit and wait.
His Pastor then said to him, well son, why not just read from your outline? Jack then said....OUTLINE????? What is an outline?????
 
GBzone said:
I do not accept that assertion in isolation.
For one thing I have too heard that there are corrupted texts and from which Jerome(?) and now others have used as their foundation for their 'translations'
I have also heard a good argument as to the uncorrupted texts that are perfectly acceptable and reliable .
It is not enough to say that ALL of them both corrupted and uncorrupted are much the same as they both bare witness of Christ .

Thus while what you say is true as to corrupted texts . It is but a half truth which is no good at all.
The result is not what you claim that they all support the truth with incredible accuracy.
For many new translations based on such foundations have omitted and added and some deny some very basic truths all together .

Another reason why learning Greek and Hebrew is not enough if there has been the use of corrupted texts.

in Christ
gerald
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Yet in kindness can my context be reflected also with accuracy my friend; for I am not stating that all manuscripts are true, I am saying that thousands of manuscripts secure what is true.
 
calvin said:
No a child begins knowing nothing much but grows...true.


Eph 4:11. And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12. to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13. until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14. so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
Eph 4:15. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
Eph 4:16. from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

Now I'm sure you are not suggesting that any who at death have not achieved this ideal will be dealt with more severely than those who have?
Where Paul teaches that 'we will know fully', he does not mean that we will know all that is to be known of God....that we will posses all knowledge, else we would be equal to God.
He means that all that God has chosen to reveal of Himself to us will finally be known to us.
I'm confident that there will be a 'feather time' where the fullest knowledge will be disseminated, so that Eph 4:13. will finally be realized by the body and bride of Christ, ie we will all be brought up to speed so to speak.
There was nothing lacking in the context in which I used 1 Cor 13:12.
Click to expand...

Great Fiction said:
Yet in kindness can my context be reflected also with accuracy my friend; for I am not stating that all manuscripts are true, I am saying that thousands of manuscripts secure what is true.
Click to expand...

Basin g ones Greek or Hebrew translation of that which is corrupted will not give you that which is true .

In Christ
gerald
 
Translations are attempts to either be literal or to transfer an idea. But what is missing from this discussion is that, what is the reason for the word of God? To be literal (letter of the law?) or to convey an idea? What is the idea? Jesus. The scriptures, ALL translations, are nothing more than a hand drawn map to Jesus from YOUR starting point. Too many take the bible and make it a god. Others can't see the truth because it's not in the originals, while others only accept THEIR version and reject all other truths just because it's not explicitly spelled out in their favorite version. The word of God is not God. The word of God is to get us TO God, by the way, so does ALL OF CREATION! Once there, the Holy Spirit teaches us in ALL truth, if we learn to listen and obey. I used to be KJV only, even attending Peter Ruckman's church! But I've learned for myself that no translation is 100% correct with the ideas conveyed. Too much is LOST in translation. As one that learned and speaks Spanish fluently, some stuff cannot be translated without paragraphs of explanations. "Que tio" is a perfect example. I know of at least 10 meanings. Even Google translate doesn't get it right on the basic level! Should we stop reading anything then? No! Read, but let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth. There's so much to God, do NOT limit Him to a few pages in 66 "man accepted" books! The Holy Spirit wrote the originals through men who were willing to listen and obey. Nothing we learn from the Holy Spirit will ever contradict the originals. Don't stick to dogma, learn from Him!

<stepping down from soapbox> :whistle:
 
Abdicate said:
Translations are attempts to either be literal or to transfer an idea. But what is missing from this discussion is that, what is the reason for the word of God? To be literal (letter of the law?) or to convey an idea? What is the idea? Jesus. The scriptures, ALL translations, are nothing more than a hand drawn map to Jesus from YOUR starting point. Too many take the bible and make it a god. Others can't see the truth because it's not in the originals, while others only accept THEIR version and reject all other truths just because it's not explicitly spelled out in their favorite version. The word of God is not God. The word of God is to get us TO God, by the way, so does ALL OF CREATION! Once there, the Holy Spirit teaches us in ALL truth, if we learn to listen and obey. I used to be KJV only, even attending Peter Ruckman's church! But I've learned for myself that no translation is 100% correct with the ideas conveyed. Too much is LOST in translation. As one that learned and speaks Spanish fluently, some stuff cannot be translated without paragraphs of explanations. "Que tio" is a perfect example. I know of at least 10 meanings. Even Google translate doesn't get it right on the basic level! Should we stop reading anything then? No! Read, but let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth. There's so much to God, do NOT limit Him to a few pages in 66 "man accepted" books! The Holy Spirit wrote the originals through men who were willing to listen and obey. Nothing we learn from the Holy Spirit will ever contradict the originals. Don't stick to dogma, learn from Him!

<stepping down from soapbox> :whistle:
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This idea of the Bible or rather two false ideas of the Bible is perhaps the two legs of what is much wrong in the church and why we are so far from the truth .
1 ) " The scriptures .ALL translations , are nothing more than a hand drawn map to Jesus from YOUR starting point.................."
While it is never all together satisfactory taking a statement out of an 'argument ' and using it in isolation . As this is one of the two foundational points of it .It is not therefore unreasonable.
IF (A) translation is from a persons own personal starting point or perspective it is nothing more than an OPNION and a subjective one at that and is more than useless but will and can and does mislead anybody who uses it as a "lamp unto their feet and a light unto their path "
For one simple reason . It comes FROM man .
What comes from GOD leads men to God . "For my Word that goeth forth out of my mouth shall not return unto me void but shall accomplish that where unto I sent it "
"ALL scripture is inspired by God................. " In other words all scripture is given from GODS perspective not mans . Albeit in places God records how man sees it and then how God sees the same thing and then says make righteous judgment who is right in the matter.
Mans perspective was that the tree was "good to eat" and HIS reasoning was and still is that it would make him wise .
If anything else the Bible shows what calamities follow when me do things form their "starting point"
Even the Lord Himself had no such opinion. The words that I speak are not my own words but as the Father taught me so it teach " or in another place "what I see the Father doing ,that do I " Where do you think he "saw " the father doing it? Or how do you think he was taught? Or from what perspective did he see things from? For did he not say "I came not to do my will but the will of Him that sent me"
Who is so blind and deaf as my servant" says the scriptures . That is to say blind to everything but what God would have Him see and deaf to ever other voice but his masters .
Was not the ear nailed to the door of his mastsrs house when a servant who could have been released at the jubilee refused and became a "love slave" to them. What can an ear nailed to the door of the house mean apart from having an ear only to their master?
Im reminded of Luthor nailing those points to the door of the church that was "full of its own ways " A church who had an ear (itching ears?) for every the every voice of the world but turned out to be deaf to the truth .
If all scripture is inspired of God what man has the presumption to translate them according to his own words and perspective? Clearly more than one !
Did not Jesus say every "tittle" was importants and in an other place ,people who add to or take from it are cursed.
God is not an Englishman ,though perhaps we used to think he was .But He is not .
Nor is he a Jew . For not only in CHrist is their neither Jew nor Greek . You will have to ask yourself the question what language will they speak in or rather comuinicate in when they are all seated around the marriage feast of the Lamb? The Bride consisting of people from every nation and tribe in the world?
Indeed when God said "let there be light " Was it of mans language or His own?
It is written that God "humbles Himself to speak to men" and so it must be true given the Majesty of God and the dust of men.
Yet when Jesus came to this earth ,he did not come that we might remain where we were. Geographically so it might be "that where I am ye might be also " But also spiritually .For "they that are joined to the Lord are of one Spirit " and also of the mind "let this mind be in you as it was of Christ "
If then men simply change the Word of God or translate it from THIER perspective .They not only do NOT and cannot do so from Gods but they also will and can and do mis-LEAD as well .
For if they do not LEAN upon the one who inspired the scriptures to start with according to" the mind of God " but rather "........ lean ()upon their own understanding ..........." Then they will translate the scriptures after their own hearts and minds at best and at worse by the 'inspiration' of him who first whispered in the ears of Eve .Who in turn by believing the lie "......saw that it was good to eat " and reasoned thus "it would make her wise"

In the things "Earth" one mans opinion might be said to be equal to anothers . But I see nothing in this world to encourage me to believe any mans opinion in the things of God .
What men need is the truth and the light of Gods Word .For men are in darkness and walk in darkness even as they think they have A light .
They who come with their own words and seek their own glory are not righteous .But he who comes seeking the glory of Him that sent Him is both righteous and his message true . So said Jesus .
if then HE did not come to teach from HIS perspective .Why should any man think to do otherwise?

In Christ
gerald
 
Dude really, no one will read your incoherent ramblings if you don't make sense or even attempt to make a point. I beg you to reread your post. You say "two points," comment on "1" (I think), no hint at "#2", then go to a sub-point "A" but never move on to a required "B". I can't tell if you're for or against what I said, but I do know for certainty you're wrong about one thing: Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew.

Back to my comments: Have you even remotely considered that the power of the Author still draws all men to Jesus despite man "touching" His work. Can man touch the work of God and make it useless? Man is too finite and God is too infinite to even compare works. God can use a blade of grass to call all men to Him. ANYTHING can be used by God. How do I know? None of the apostles had a New Testament to go by, because they LIVED it just as we are supposed to. A heart seeking truth will always find the Truth not matter where they start their journey.
 
Abdicate said:
Dude really, no one will read your incoherent ramblings if you don't make sense or even attempt to make a point. I beg you to reread your post. You say "two points," comment on "1" (I think), no hint at "#2", then go to a sub-point "A" but never move on to a required "B". I can't tell if you're for or against what I said, but I do know for certainty you're wrong about one thing: Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew.

Back to my comments: Have you even remotely considered that the power of the Author still draws all men to Jesus despite man "touching" His work. Can man touch the work of God and make it useless? Man is too finite and God is too infinite to even compare works. God can use a blade of grass to call all men to Him. ANYTHING can be used by God. How do I know? None of the apostles had a New Testament to go by, because they LIVED it just as we are supposed to. A heart seeking truth will always find the Truth not matter where they start their journey.
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What he said is what I already said. So I agree with abdicate and ME~!
 
GBzone said:
This idea of the Bible or rather two false ideas of the Bible is perhaps the two legs of what is much wrong in the church and why we are so far from the truth .
1 ) " The scriptures .ALL translations , are nothing more than a hand drawn map to Jesus from YOUR starting point.................."
While it is never all together satisfactory taking a statement out of an 'argument ' and using it in isolation . As this is one of the two foundational points of it .It is not therefore unreasonable.
IF (A) translation is from a persons own personal starting point or perspective it is nothing more than an OPNION and a subjective one at that and is more than useless but will and can and does mislead anybody who uses it as a "lamp unto their feet and a light unto their path "
For one simple reason . It comes FROM man .
What comes from GOD leads men to God . "For my Word that goeth forth out of my mouth shall not return unto me void but shall accomplish that where unto I sent it "
"ALL scripture is inspired by God................. " In other words all scripture is given from GODS perspective not mans . Albeit in places God records how man sees it and then how God sees the same thing and then says make righteous judgment who is right in the matter.
Mans perspective was that the tree was "good to eat" and HIS reasoning was and still is that it would make him wise .
If anything else the Bible shows what calamities follow when me do things form their "starting point"
Even the Lord Himself had no such opinion. The words that I speak are not my own words but as the Father taught me so it teach " or in another place "what I see the Father doing ,that do I " Where do you think he "saw " the father doing it? Or how do you think he was taught? Or from what perspective did he see things from? For did he not say "I came not to do my will but the will of Him that sent me"
Who is so blind and deaf as my servant" says the scriptures . That is to say blind to everything but what God would have Him see and deaf to ever other voice but his masters .
Was not the ear nailed to the door of his mastsrs house when a servant who could have been released at the jubilee refused and became a "love slave" to them. What can an ear nailed to the door of the house mean apart from having an ear only to their master?
Im reminded of Luthor nailing those points to the door of the church that was "full of its own ways " A church who had an ear (itching ears?) for every the every voice of the world but turned out to be deaf to the truth .
If all scripture is inspired of God what man has the presumption to translate them according to his own words and perspective? Clearly more than one !
Did not Jesus say every "tittle" was importants and in an other place ,people who add to or take from it are cursed.
God is not an Englishman ,though perhaps we used to think he was .But He is not .
Nor is he a Jew . For not only in CHrist is their neither Jew nor Greek . You will have to ask yourself the question what language will they speak in or rather comuinicate in when they are all seated around the marriage feast of the Lamb? The Bride consisting of people from every nation and tribe in the world?
Indeed when God said "let there be light " Was it of mans language or His own?
It is written that God "humbles Himself to speak to men" and so it must be true given the Majesty of God and the dust of men.
Yet when Jesus came to this earth ,he did not come that we might remain where we were. Geographically so it might be "that where I am ye might be also " But also spiritually .For "they that are joined to the Lord are of one Spirit " and also of the mind "let this mind be in you as it was of Christ "
If then men simply change the Word of God or translate it from THIER perspective .They not only do NOT and cannot do so from Gods but they also will and can and do mis-LEAD as well .
For if they do not LEAN upon the one who inspired the scriptures to start with according to" the mind of God " but rather "........ lean ()upon their own understanding ..........." Then they will translate the scriptures after their own hearts and minds at best and at worse by the 'inspiration' of him who first whispered in the ears of Eve .Who in turn by believing the lie "......saw that it was good to eat " and reasoned thus "it would make her wise"

In the things "Earth" one mans opinion might be said to be equal to anothers . But I see nothing in this world to encourage me to believe any mans opinion in the things of God .
What men need is the truth and the light of Gods Word .For men are in darkness and walk in darkness even as they think they have A light .
They who come with their own words and seek their own glory are not righteous .But he who comes seeking the glory of Him that sent Him is both righteous and his message true . So said Jesus .
if then HE did not come to teach from HIS perspective .Why should any man think to do otherwise?

In Christ
gerald
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God bless you brother. I do believe that you have a lot of good things to communicate. I just wish you could be more coherent.
 
It's easy to be misunderstood on a forum thread for any number of reasons. If we aren't crystal in our posts - I don't have a problem with length mostly - we leave the reader, even the most well intended, with holes that they then try to fill with their own meaning - pro and con. We end up thinking we agree, when we don't or disagree when we don't.
 
Abdicate said:
OK :) I'll take your word for it. For some reason, I've read his comment several times, but I can't follow... maybe it's me...
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Not to beat a dead horse, but read back. @KingJ seems to feel he understands the posts and indicates it's a communication problem. But everyone else seems unclear.
 
And here we have one of the major problems with modern Christianity.
The notion that "all you need can be found in a book".
You are supposed to find Jesus and through the relationship with Him, become like Him.
If your relationship is with the Bible, and not who the Bible is about, you are wasting your time.
 
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