G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
It means to completely ruin.
Afterlife
- Thread starter MMurphy
- Start date
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
It means to completely ruin.
That's what I thought it meant.
But what is "G575 G3639" ?
There are no scriptures that contradict what I have said.
Nothing in any of those scriptures is effective in supporting your view. I didn't ignore them. I ignore your insistence on using them to further your false argument.
"Hopeful Universalism" has no place in the Kingdom of God. We don't have to launder what God teaches us about hope, and His desire that all men be saved. The fact that remains is that not all men will be saved and millions will perish. We don't need to suffer the made-up stuff of those who are fearful of that truth and want to sidestep what offends their sensibilities. One day, God will judge and He will condemn the unrighteous.
G575
ἀπό
apo
apo'
A primary particle; “off”, that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.
G3639
ὄλεθρος
olethros
ol'-eth-ros
From ὄλλυμι ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.
I don't speak Canadian, but thank you. Very informative.
MMurphy
Inactive
You may correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bible teaches that what is necessary for salvation is faith in Christ and belief that He is God; not belief in Hell. That being said I do believe Hell exists, I just don't claim to know Hell exists, because I don't, nor does any other person. Also, I do accept Christ as Lord and Savior, and all other major Christian dogmas, I just look out beyond a narrow view of who can teach wisdom--"Lean not on your own understanding"--accepting that most denominations have wisdom to offer, which nearly every protestant believes, because no one has a monopoly on the Christian Faith.
I will also say, with all due respect, I think you misunderstand faith. Doubt is not the opposite of Faith, certainty is. Luther described his understanding of salvation as having a Child-like faith in Christ. The Child doesn't have certainty about anything, he just doesn't believe his father would allow him to falter, nor do I.
There is a saying, I'm not sure who exactly (I will find out later), who has said something along the lines of, "If I serve God for the hope of Heaven, let me be deprived of it, and if I serve Him for the fear of Hell, let me not avoid it. But if I serve Him because I Love Him, let me not ever be separated from Him."
I think what you might think is my meaning for hopeful univeralism is that I am just living a really immoral life and I'm just hoping that it'll all work out eventually. On the contrary, I live to serve God, my hope is from a human perspective that everyone else will too. Since we are all sinners, none is more deserving of Heaven than the other, so why not hope that we all make it?
The word destroy also means simply "to kill", which is what will happen - the second death. This is a perfect example of how translations can influence a theological thought when it may have just been poetic license.
"Rather, be afraid of the One who can kill both soul and body in hell."
Yep... that's the second death... but in reality, we are born dead. The Spirit quickens us (makes us alive).
People believe in universalism because they believe God is good. God is good. The question of how someone can serve a God that causes His enemies to suffer eternally is valid! Only an evil person would serve an evil God. God is not evil.
Logic tells me / should tell you that if a good God decides to keep His enemy living, He has plans for them / He is not done with them / He still wants them around / He still loves them.
So, all who grasp and believe that God is good can be forgiven for expecting the best for sinners. Is Christianity 101 not turning the left cheek? God ordained that the greatest in heaven is the humblest Matt 18:4. Is God not the humblest being in the universe?
I understand that sin needs to be punished. But who is going to stop us from taking them water once their sentence according to their works is up?
This verse reminds me of an ant biting my foot. That ant would be wise to fear where my foot lands. But does that mean I will step on the ant?
God is exceedingly good, merciful and humble. Our conclusions about blurry matters / the unknown must always bear that in mind.
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God made very plain his mind by allowing us to have a personal relationship with himself as man.
I will never understand the "you cannot know the mind of God" or "He's a mystery" crowd.
That goes back to the Old Testament days and further back.
There comes a time when all evil MUST be purged or else there will be more suffering. That was NOT the glory of creation. Suffering is only glorious to a psychopath.
Salvation is belief in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. THAT is the gospel!
Whether you believe in hell or not is really not the issue at all. It is what it is not matter what we think or believe.
I know what the Scriptures say and my faith is placed in the truth of God's Word, not what I think!
If doubt is not the opposite of faith, then why did Jesus come to Thomas and have him touch His body? Thomas doubted my friend!!!
I do agree with you that I hope everyone makes it to heaven, however that is not reality neither is it Biblical. There actually will be more people in hell than in heaven and that is what Jesus said to us. I am going to have to believe Him!
I said that.
I am sure you would agree that we cannot forget that the concept of judgment is part of the gospel message. We cannot launder it like some people here would like to do it to make it cater to the sensibilities of those who don't like the idea.
John 3:16 is the gospel message in a nutshell.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
And that means it exists no more.
The King must obey his own commands. If not, he's a fraud.
To allow evil to continue to threaten his children is evil. Or insane.
My King is neither.
Not true. Evil confined away for eternity is not a threat to the Kingdom.