Are Women Pastors Biblical???

It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
There are NO recorded instances of a female pastor nor Elder, as the only example was Phoebe as a deaconess!
 
There are NO recorded instances of a female pastor nor Elder, as the only example was Phoebe as a deaconess!

Agreed, and the question must be, was she actually a "Deacon".

Using text to explain text, especially in the immediate context, Romans 16:2,3 in the words “succourer” (describing Phoebe) and “helper” (describing Priscilla and Aquila) tell us what type of servant/diakonos/deacon that Phoebe was -- a servant or helper in the general sense of the term since the other two words have no office in mind or definition. Also, the texts say nothing of an office in connection with Phoebe like it does elsewhere. We have no text or word with the office of deacon in mind here.
 
There are NO recorded instances of a female pastor nor Elder, as the only example was Phoebe as a deaconess!

Agreed, and the question must be, was she actually a "Deacon".

Using text to explain text, especially in the immediate context, Romans 16:2,3 in the words “succourer” (describing Phoebe) and “helper” (describing Priscilla and Aquila) tell us what type of servant/diakonos/deacon that Phoebe was -- a servant or helper in the general sense of the term since the other two words have no office in mind or definition. Also, the texts say nothing of an office in connection with Phoebe like it does elsewhere. We have no text or word with the office of deacon in mind here.

Hello YeshuaFan and Major;

Agreed, brothers. Thank you for pointing these out according to Scripture.

God bless you and your families.
 
Agreed, and the question must be, was she actually a "Deacon".

Using text to explain text, especially in the immediate context, Romans 16:2,3 in the words “succourer” (describing Phoebe) and “helper” (describing Priscilla and Aquila) tell us what type of servant/diakonos/deacon that Phoebe was -- a servant or helper in the general sense of the term since the other two words have no office in mind or definition. Also, the texts say nothing of an office in connection with Phoebe like it does elsewhere. We have no text or word with the office of deacon in mind here.
And there is also some who like to point out that there was a woman numbered among the Apostles as proof she was an Apostle even!
 
It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
Well said, I am in a agreement and perhaps can add something further.
Scripture is full of types, foreshadowing, allegories etc. And Adam and Eve are no different.
Do you ever wonder why man and woman?
What's the point?
It is a type of Christ and His bride. Genesis shows that the bride must follow Jesus and not make independent decisions as eve did. Eve fell into sin because she did not follow the instructions of Adam (as it was Adam who was told not to eat).
So we see this in the church, when the bride makes her own decisions rather than following what Christ instructed she falls into sin.
Just as the bride does not instruct Jesus, so too the woman does not teach the man as it is written in scripture.
 
Well said, I am in a agreement and perhaps can add something further.
Scripture is full of types, foreshadowing, allegories etc. And Adam and Eve are no different.
Do you ever wonder why man and woman?
What's the point?
It is a type of Christ and His bride. Genesis shows that the bride must follow Jesus and not make independent decisions as eve did. Eve fell into sin because she did not follow the instructions of Adam (as it was Adam who was told not to eat).
So we see this in the church, when the bride makes her own decisions rather than following what Christ instructed she falls into sin.
Just as the bride does not instruct Jesus, so too the woman does not teach the man as it is written in scripture.

I have read and studies that myself.
 
I've been accosted about this issue from extreme feminists who demanded that women are just as equally capable and intelligent as men.

Never have I denied that women are as capable and intelligent as men. The problem with their argument, however, is that capability and intelligence are nothing but red herring, straw man arguments. The Lord's reasoning for setting up the doctrinal authority in the Church as He did had nothing to do with those elements for measure.

The extremists also argued that, in Christ, there's no male nor female. Again, this is fallacious argumentation. Where it's true that IN CHRIST there are no distinctions in relation to the efficacy of His shed blood for salvation, nor in spiritual standing, the same Lord also established distinctions in all our functions WITHIN THE CHURCH and WITHIN THE FAMILY.

The extremists, as instruments of Satan, were simply out to blur, and even wipe out, the lines of distinctions, as an outworking of our post-modern culture seeking to stamp out ALL distinctions between men and women...period, regardless of the obvious.

This, again, is all a demonstration for what I've said many times...the biggest problem humanity has with God is His Sovereignty. Mankind wants a god that is totally under his control rather than Sovereign, and he has invented many gods for himself that all have conformed to the image of man and his wicked desires.

What a surprise, huh?

MM
 
I've been accosted about this issue from extreme feminists who demanded that women are just as equally capable and intelligent as men.

Never have I denied that women are as capable and intelligent as men. The problem with their argument, however, is that capability and intelligence are nothing but red herring, straw man arguments. The Lord's reasoning for setting up the doctrinal authority in the Church as He did had nothing to do with those elements for measure.

The extremists also argued that, in Christ, there's no male nor female. Again, this is fallacious argumentation. Where it's true that IN CHRIST there are no distinctions in relation to the efficacy of His shed blood for salvation, nor in spiritual standing, the same Lord also established distinctions in all our functions WITHIN THE CHURCH and WITHIN THE FAMILY.

The extremists, as instruments of Satan, were simply out to blur, and even wipe out, the lines of distinctions, as an outworking of our post-modern culture seeking to stamp out ALL distinctions between men and women...period, regardless of the obvious.

This, again, is all a demonstration for what I've said many times...the biggest problem humanity has with God is His Sovereignty. Mankind wants a god that is totally under his control rather than Sovereign, and he has invented many gods for himself that all have conformed to the image of man and his wicked desires.

What a surprise, huh?

MM

The subject comes down to one very simple and clear point.

God said it and we either accept it and obey it or..........we change it to say what we want it to say.
 
The subject comes down to one very simple and clear point.

God said it and we either accept it and obey it or..........we change it to say what we want it to say.
They fail to see that the truth refers NOT to assigned roles for the sexes by God, but that we all in Christ share equally all spiritual blessings!
 
The subject comes down to one very simple and clear point.

God said it and we either accept it and obey it or..........we change it to say what we want it to say.
Pattern of God ordained male headship/;leadership goes against all cultural norms today!
 
1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.
Hi Major,

As you would expect from me now, I would disagree. Let`s see what the Holy Spirit is saying through Paul.

`Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man but to be in silence.` (1 Tim. 2: 11 & 12)

Silence - Gk. word `hesuchia,` meaning desistance from bustle. From the Gk, word `hesuchazo,` meaning refrain from meddlesomeness speech.

So clearly Paul is saying that the women should not be meddlesome, interrupting the message being given. Paul is NOT saying they are not to say any thing at the right time. Otherwise why would Paul say that all may prophecy, (1 Cor. 14: 1) and `teach and admonish one another...` (Col. 3: 16)

Also Acts 2: 17, `Your sons and daughters shall prophecy...` and we see Philip the evangelist had four daughter who all prophesied. (Acts 21: 8 & 9)

We can think of Corrie ten Boon, and Jackie Pullinger, (Walled City in Hong Kong) etc who all preached and shared God`s word, and made disciples etc. And men were in their congregation.

The key point there is for women to not have authority OVER a man, not to `lord it over,` as Peter also says of ALL leaders, (1 Peter 5: 3) And we see so much of that today - men lording it over others, being a ONE MAN leader. NOT scriptural.

So to say that women must keep `silent` as in not talking, is a false doctrine.
 
Hi Major,

As you would expect from me now, I would disagree. Let`s see what the Holy Spirit is saying through Paul.

`Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man but to be in silence.` (1 Tim. 2: 11 & 12)

Silence - Gk. word `hesuchia,` meaning desistance from bustle. From the Gk, word `hesuchazo,` meaning refrain from meddlesomeness speech.

So clearly Paul is saying that the women should not be meddlesome, interrupting the message being given. Paul is NOT saying they are not to say any thing at the right time. Otherwise why would Paul say that all may prophecy, (1 Cor. 14: 1) and `teach and admonish one another...` (Col. 3: 16)

Also Acts 2: 17, `Your sons and daughters shall prophecy...` and we see Philip the evangelist had four daughter who all prophesied. (Acts 21: 8 & 9)

We can think of Corrie ten Boon, and Jackie Pullinger, (Walled City in Hong Kong) etc who all preached and shared God`s word, and made disciples etc. And men were in their congregation.

The key point there is for women to not have authority OVER a man, not to `lord it over,` as Peter also says of ALL leaders, (1 Peter 5: 3) And we see so much of that today - men lording it over others, being a ONE MAN leader. NOT scriptural.

So to say that women must keep `silent` as in not talking, is a false doctrine.
There are not called be the spiritual leadership head in local church, not to be pastors nor elders!
 
Wow, I visited another place where some very "supposedly" intelligent people were unable to handle the truth of God's word. Now I am learning why the truths of God that I accept are not easily swallowed by many and become a stumbling block of confusion, when being read by new Christians. Moderators have to pick and choose what is best left or removed--not an easy job.
Hey Blest,thanks for sharing.Are you aware that Sunday(1st day of the week) as a chosen day of worship by most denominations worldwide is actually a tradition started by the catholic church?You can find the truth at creation.
 
mmmm.....& your scriptural references for that doctrine please?
Hey MC,I dont normally agree with the crowd but in this case its true..woman are not to usurp authority of the man.

1Timothy 2:12 -
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

However woman are permitted to lead and teach other women.

Titus 2:3
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Men and woman have different roles that is all it is.
 
Hey MC,I dont normally agree with the crowd but in this case its true..woman are not to usurp authority of the man.

1Timothy 2:12 -
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

However woman are permitted to lead and teach other women.

Titus 2:3
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Men and woman have different roles that is all it is.

RDJ, the lure of power, authority, notoriety, acceptance, being looked up to, etc., are items to which our fallen, human nature is drawn. Look what peer pressure does in pushing young girls to engage in sex with the boys, kids to start smoking and doing drugs, acting like animals, et al. In any and ALL circles of humanity, society and culture, we always gravitate toward what elevates us upward.

What I hate in all of this, is that these influences have spilled over into our various religious and faith circles. Know what I mean?

God established functions between the sexes in both the home and in the faith gatherings. What religious gatherings do, I really don't care, because they're going to do whatever they want. When it comes to people of faith, none of this should be an issue. We should love and support one another in the God-given functions and giftings each of us has been given by our God who created all that there is.

Women have their function within the family and Church, and men have theirs. My step-mom said it very well when stating her inability to understand why so many are pushing for women to shoulder the function and responsibilities of men. What's even worse are the women out there who belittle her for that observation, claiming that she's been made into a walking mat for everyone to wipe their feet upon.

This is so sad. Women have a tremendous set of functions that I admire, and I love them very much who serve their functions with honor and dignity. The same for the men. Life is hard enough in what we have and should be doing, but all the crossing-over is just more work, and cause for horrendous controversy. Why? We employ technology to make life easier, and it mostly causes greater stress, and throws a wet blanket over the love and support we should extend to one another.

I know many women who are teaching other, younger women, and who rock the cradle, and who teach the young, love their husbands, serve others with selfless abandon with the love of Christ flowing out of them. They inspire me to be better in my functions. We should ALL be content with what the Lord has commanded and given for us to be and do in the Church and in the family, but Satan never gives up, does he? That spirit wants us to blur the lines, as has happened in this wicked culture of all around the world. This same Satan is at work through his servants throughout every nation, every city, and in every home...trying to split and divide; destroying the admiration and support we should all be extending to one another as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Feminism, along with many other -isms, they have mostly wreaked massive damage and carnage that only the purity of God's word can sort out and set right. Like every movement that has ever started with good intentions, they all end up going off the deep end, and pushing for extremes to justify their continued existence, that are nothing more than beliefs and actions that do nothing more than to destroy and bring down the wrath of God in the end. They always make victims of not only their targets, but also of the supporting members themselves (hint, hint...there are powerful implications in that one statement to which we have all observed not only of late, but all throughout our lives who have been on this earth for some time now).

MM
 
There are not called be the spiritual leadership head in local church, not to be pastors nor elders!

Men and women are all called to act in love and faith. How we respond to one another is a showing of that love that we have for one another. We can disagree with fellow Christians with love isn't this God's way?

We each has a responsibility to prove all things.
1 Thess 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (KJV)

God's word is the source of truth
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (KJV)

If you are comfortable that you understand God's word and act on the truth you have received then we can in good conscience come before God and men. We each are given an awesome responsibility. I personally trust God to open and close doorways. Men and women have positions of great responsibility.

Men and women are teachers. Women are often the ones that teach the children which is a huge responsibility. Men share in that responsibility. Men and women both teach in church. The how maybe different, but the effect is the same.
 
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