Are Women Pastors Biblical???

[Cosia]

Oh, my. You're hitting on a depth that could and would require an entire dissertation to do it justice (if even that were possible), therefore only a contraction will I provide, chancing that you still not understand. You had to be there. You're focus only upon the level of or humanity and the limitations therein, I absolutely agree with you. However, when I addressed this, I was speaking from a higher plain than the human limitations the Lord surpasses and exceeds in ways that defy language and written/verbal expression.

I'm willing to hazard a tongue lashing for not conveying the depths of what I had revealed that is contrary to your earlier statement, because I cannot hand over to you or anyone else that most glorious Presence in those places where the reality was unearthly in the sense that it cannot be contrived by any written program handed out by ushers and greeters, nor orchestrated from a pulpit.

So, I leave you to your own devices in trying to grapple with that which is experiential by way of the Divine. Does that sound "charismatic?" (shrug) Maybe, but I'm not charismatic in the least, nor am I strictly intellectual...having been raised Southern Baptist. I just know that the Lord moved in those places like I have never seem Him move in any others. No, there were no tongues of flames alighting upon heads or anything like that. There was a Power in those places that (to my thinking) is the birthright of all believers, but is denied for the sake of programmaticism (hey, I just invented a new word...).

Do with it as you will, for the best I could ever hope to do for you in answering this is to take your hand, and lead you into a place where there is such an experience being lived out, and let the Spirit show to you what is beyond words.

MM

That was so beautiful. A real blessing just to read it.
Thank you and God Bless you

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hey Blest,thanks for sharing.Are you aware that Sunday(1st day of the week) as a chosen day of worship by most denominations worldwide is actually a tradition started by the catholic church?You can find the truth at creation.

Actually, Lords day, as early Church celebrated Sunday, as Apostles made that change!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hey Blest,thanks for sharing.Are you aware that Sunday(1st day of the week) as a chosen day of worship by most denominations worldwide is actually a tradition started by the catholic church?You can find the truth at creation.

Sounds like a Seventh Day Sabbath Keeper?

 

[YeshuaFan]

mmmm.....& your scriptural references for that doctrine please?

ALL references in the NT were pastors and Elders being men, NONE were female listed!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hey MC,I dont normally agree with the crowd but in this case its true..woman are not to usurp authority of the man.

1Timothy 2:12 -
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

However woman are permitted to lead and teach other women.

Titus 2:3
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Men and woman have different roles that is all it is.

Women can teach children, women, but cannot be as pastors and Elders...

 

[YeshuaFan]

Men and women are all called to act in love and faith. How we respond to one another is a showing of that love that we have for one another. We can disagree with fellow Christians with love isn't this God's way?

We each has a responsibility to prove all things.
1 Thess 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (KJV)

God's word is the source of truth
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (KJV)

If you are comfortable that you understand God's word and act on the truth you have received then we can in good conscience come before God and men. We each are given an awesome responsibility. I personally trust God to open and close doorways. Men and women have positions of great responsibility.

Men and women are teachers. Women are often the ones that teach the children which is a huge responsibility. Men share in that responsibility. Men and women both teach in church. The how maybe different, but the effect is the same.

Women often are better teachers then the men with children, just saying no bible passages support them as pastors or Elders in a local church setting!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hi RDJ,

No that position is not clear. Though I said it before and will again, I do not think that women are good at carrying the load in a denominational setting, as it involves more than shepherding, but involves business, and leading as a CEO, and dealing with men in a `lording it over` role. All of which is not good for men either but they tend to handle it better for men look to them. Not to say women haven`t done it or still do, but to me the whole denominational structure thing has served its purpose and has now a past `used by date.` (for many reasons).

So let`s look at 1 Cor. 14: 34 - 35, as you have it to support your theory.

`Let the women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak;...` (1 Cor. 14: 34)

According to this theory (women can`t be Pastors) women then can`t publicly in the meeting- testify, read the Bible, pray, sing, prophecy, teach, preach, etc. for they must be silent.

However the Greek word give a different picture.

Silence - Greek, `sigao,` meaning keep silent, hold peace. Why?

Speak - Greek, `laleo,` to talk, an extended or random harangue, (a noisy or pompous address with out a solid sense or argument.)

Thus we realise that Paul is saying that the women are NOT to prattle on and on, and give a noisy, pompous address not based on a solid argument etc.

And personally I see that this theory of women keeping silent in public meetings has NO basis and is demonically inspired.

There are NO passages that would support females as pastors or Elders though, as its the pattern of male headship!

 

[RDJ]

Sounds like a Seventh Day Sabbath Keeper?

Lol....im not a seventh day adventists just by the way..Yes I do keep the sabbath on the seventh day as God intended..Just as he intended for men to lead woman..All these truths are found at creation.God doesn't change neither has his creation.

 

[RDJ]

Actually, Lords day, as early Church celebrated Sunday, as Apostles made that change!

So the apostles changed the Lord's Day from Saturday to Sunday?Even If they did which they did not, they certainly don't have that authority or power to create and make something Holy.To suggest the apostles changed God's creation is ridiculous.

Do you know which apostle changed it?Or did they all get together to discuss this change and then a vote was done at the end?Do you have more information about this or scripture for this huge change

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Are Women Pastors Biblical???​

About as "Biblical" as the average Sunday Morning service -

 

[Musicmaster]

 

[Marilyn C]

ALL references in the NT were pastors and Elders being men, NONE were female listed!

Thank you for replying.

Now just because it is not mentioned specifically, is NOT a valid argument.

We do see women working with Paul, co-labouring together - Priscilla, (who with Aquila) `they ...explained the way of God ,more accurately,` to Apollos. He was `mighty in the scriptures,` but only `knew of the baptism of John.` (Acts 18: 24 - 26) So we see Priscilla teaching as well.

Mary, Julia, Tyohena, Tryphosa and Persis who laboured much in the Lord. (Rom. 16: 6, 12, 14).

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Absolutely. I totally agree. The difference, however, are the resources. When a widow stood up in one of those larger meetings and said that she needed a new roof on her home, but couldn't afford a contractor, there were far more people in the larger group able to assist because of the larger group presence than most any smaller group...unless one of the people in the smaller group happened to have the various means. I had heard one such recount when visiting one of those larger groups. The widow known for being poor and on a fixed income, and so, from the larger group, more men and women went to that house and did what needed going to replace the roof and clean her house for her, with her. Small groups would likely not have had the mix of numbers to accomplish such, and the financial burden would have likely been beyond the small group's means. I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but it all bears saying...

Public? Yes, and that's where we all live. Both grouping sizes have their advantages and disadvantages. I've experienced both. The presence of the Lord can be in both, especially when openly invited. Our prayer to the Lord in our home fellowship is an invitation to the Lord for Him to join us. We welcome the Lord with open hearts and arms. We may appear charismatic, but the body expression of open arms unto the Lord in prayer far predates charismaticism.

NOTE: That meeting of 3000+ went on for about 10 hours. People came and wet as they needed to go and get something to eat, etc., but it was an opportunity for the believing body to do active, internal ministry toward each other that they had little to no opportunity elsewhere. The one with 300+, they went for about 6 hours before the last of the people trickled off. Both were on Sunday's, much to the disdain of religionists who bicker over which day is the Sabbath. How pathetic indeed. It was about a collective enjoyment of the presence and outflow of the Spirit of God in the midst of an inflow of worship and praise toward Him.

Were there unbelievers there, or those who were lukewarm? Likely. They probably didn't stay very long; leaving early to go out and recreate rather than to be a part of something their wicked hearts couldn't comprehend.

MM

Hi MM,

That sounded interesting. As to helping the lady with the roof. Just great. However we need to remember that such things are not dependent upon man. For instance in our group people rely on the Lord, and see Him bringing amazing needs fulfilled. Also the ministry of `helps` is prominent, and retirees with finance have and do help those in our group and others as well. The `key` is the Lord who knows people`s needs.

And note, the small group with other small groups relating are not a once of but continually work in the every day seeing and helping people in need in many, many ways. We connect with other groups that do household goods, others with food parcels, and others with firewood, etc etc.

So very active groups in the community. No luke warmers as all are appreciated, encouraged and very active. The proper functioning of the Body of Christ.

 

[Marilyn C]

Women can teach children, women, but cannot be as pastors and Elders...

As I said before - `When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, (Apollos, mighty in the scriptures) THEY took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.` (Acts 18: 26)

So clearly there we see a woman `teaching` a man, (Apollos)who was mighty in the scriptures. Her husband also taught.

 

[Musicmaster]

Umm.....one can have helpers, co-laborers, fellow-laborers, or whatever one may call them in translation, and those others not necessarily carrying the same level of authority as the one with whom they were laboring.

This is wandering dangerously close to eisegetical meandering to try and subtly, and even unintentionally, or subconsciously try to make the text back a point of view that the text does not establish.

The best leaders are those who say, "Let's go and do this," as opposed to those who say, "YOU go and do this." Paul of Tarsus was a doer rather than pontificating over all others.

Just a cautionary tid-bit...

MM

 

[Marilyn C]

Umm.....one can have helpers, co-laborers, fellow-laborers, or whatever one may call them in translation, and those others not necessarily carrying the same level of authority as the one with whom they were laboring.

This is wandering dangerously close to eisegetical meandering to try and subtly, and even unintentionally, or subconsciously try to make the text back a point of view that the text does not establish.

The best leaders are those who say, "Let's go and do this," as opposed to those who say, "YOU go and do this." Paul of Tarsus was a doer rather than pontificating over all others.

Just a cautionary tid-bit...

MM

Hi MM,

Good, let`s talk about that `level of authority.`

The denomination is a `business` that is connected to the government and has laws, rules and regulations. The leadership is usually a hierarchy of power and control by one person at the top and others further down the hierarchy. Because there is land and buildings plus furniture, office equipment, sound system, music equipment, etc etc, these need to be accounted for. Thus the need for security, and control over these material things.

So where in scripture do we see such an organisation connected to the government, and ruled over by a hierarchy of power?

 

[Marilyn C]

Umm.....one can have helpers, co-laborers, fellow-laborers, or whatever one may call them in translation, and those others not necessarily carrying the same level of authority as the one with whom they were laboring.

This is wandering dangerously close to eisegetical meandering to try and subtly, and even unintentionally, or subconsciously try to make the text back a point of view that the text does not establish.

The best leaders are those who say, "Let's go and do this," as opposed to those who say, "YOU go and do this." Paul of Tarsus was a doer rather than pontificating over all others.

Just a cautionary tid-bit...

MM

Again MM,

We need to think how the early believers functioned and not impose our church model on them.

Aquila and Priscilla worked with Paul and learnt from him the whole counsel of God, (including the Body of Christ revelation). (Acts 18: 1 - 3) As they grew in understanding they were able to teach Apollos. He was a man mighty in the scriptures but only knew of the baptism of John. (Acts 18: 24) Notice they, Aquila and Priscilla, BOTH taught Apollos.

Later we see that Aquila and Priscilla had a house group in their home. (Rom. 16: 3 - 5) Believers were to teach and admonish ONE ANOTHER, when they met. (Col. 3: 16)

That is `leadership` and functioning as the Body of Christ and NOT as an organisation.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Lol....im not a seventh day adventists just by the way..Yes I do keep the sabbath on the seventh day as God intended..Just as he intended for men to lead woman..All these truths are found at creation.God doesn't change neither has his creation.

We are now free in Christ to observe any day unto the Lord, as the Sabbath was never kept until Mosaic law given to Israel, and the Church in Acts kpet Sunday then as Lords day!

 

[YeshuaFan]

So the apostles changed the Lord's Day from Saturday to Sunday?Even If they did which they did not, they certainly don't have that authority or power to create and make something Holy.To suggest the apostles changed God's creation is ridiculous.

Do you know which apostle changed it?Or did they all get together to discuss this change and then a vote was done at the end?Do you have more information about this or scripture for this huge change

In Acts the local chuirches started to meet on Sunday, as Gentiles weere NEVER under sabbath obligation!
The Church of Rome DID not order it to happen, as sda holds!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Thank you for replying.

Now just because it is not mentioned specifically, is NOT a valid argument.

We do see women working with Paul, co-labouring together - Priscilla, (who with Aquila) `they ...explained the way of God ,more accurately,` to Apollos. He was `mighty in the scriptures,` but only `knew of the baptism of John.` (Acts 18: 24 - 26) So we see Priscilla teaching as well.

Mary, Julia, Tyohena, Tryphosa and Persis who laboured much in the Lord. (Rom. 16: 6, 12, 14).

Marilyn.

None of them were listed as a pastor or Elder!