Garee

Account Closed
Something I noticed is that the references you provided do not speak of the same (singular) man who perpetrates the abomination of desolation in the temple holy place. It is written that a woman who is divorced, remarries, and then returns to the first husband, has committed what is an abomination before the Lord.

What I'm getting at is that the mere mention of abominations throughout various of the scriptures are not the same thing as that one event where the abomination of desolation is concerned. I don't see that those verses allow for the expansion of that one event by that one man, in that one place, can be smeared across all other verses that make mention of "abomination."

If I may, when others teach us a spiritualized meaning behind what is clearly more concrete than what they credit the text, I back off and consider the text as the higher authority than their teachings. I seek the Lord for His teaching above that of men. (1 John 2:27). I elevate no pastor's teaching above seeking out for myself what is written, and seeking the Spirit of the Lord for His instruction, correction, rebuke, and truth.

So, the remaining question is, what have you done to verify what you appear to be saying. If I've misunderstood your grammar, then I welcome your clarifications.

Thank you.

MM
The abomination is anything that make the faith of Christ without effet or desolate as oral traditons of men. to include the one yu offered (1 John 2;27) man teaching we do need a man seen to stand in the holy place of God glory making it desolate .

Whether its kings in Isreal a woman who is divorced, remarries, and then returns to the first husband they fall short of his glory in attempt to rob it and give it to man seen.

Are you saying it has not happened, that Jesus did not declare it desolate and flee to mountains to show us how to walk by faith ( the unseen of God )
 
The abomination is anything that make the faith of Christ without effet or desolate as oral traditons of men. to include the one yu offered (1 John 2;27) man teaching we do need a man seen to stand in the holy place of God glory making it desolate .

Whether its kings in Isreal a woman who is divorced, remarries, and then returns to the first husband they fall short of his glory in attempt to rob it and give it to man seen.

Are you saying it has not happened, that Jesus did not declare it desolate and flee to mountains to show us how to walk by faith ( the unseen of God )

If I understand you correctly, I do not recall Jesus ever fleeing to the mountains or anywhere else.

Can you clarify your meaning for me, please?

MM
 

Garee

Account Closed
i dont know where you got the law saves romans 8:2 2 laws law of Christ and law of death i am under that law of the spirit the life in Christ

That is where the difference lies between the two kinds of laws .The letter of the law as it is written the things seen the whole Bible it kills pronouncing us guilty. It must be mixed with the spirit of the law, the law of faith, it heals. . . the gospel .One warns and condemn through corruption the other reveals the unseen. In that way two laws making one new law “perfect law” .The perfect and the perfected or the just and justifier.
 
Not every mention of desolation made by the Lord, His prophets, or anyone else, is a direct reference to that one event in the middle of the Tribulation.

I will let the word of God speak for itself, in context:

Matthew 24:15-22

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

That doesn't sound anything like what happened in 70 AD. If there are men who teach that out there, then I'd have to see their reasoning. I've heard "the Bible answer man" Hank Hanegraaf try to make that case, and it fell flat when I read the text for what it says. The context gives me no reason to spiritualize it to make it fit some pre-conceived notions about eschatology.

That's just my take on it all after having spent time in prayer, seeking the Spirit of the Lord for the truth of these things. I offered to cast aside all that I think that I know about what I read, and what came to me is that the word of God is trustworthy in what it says.

MM
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
Not every mention of desolation made by the Lord, His prophets, or anyone else, is a direct reference to that one event in the middle of the Tribulation.

I will let the word of God speak for itself, in context:

Matthew 24:15-22

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

That doesn't sound anything like what happened in 70 AD. If there are men who teach that out there, then I'd have to see their reasoning. I've heard "the Bible answer man" Hank Hanegraaf try to make that case, and it fell flat when I read the text for what it says. The context gives me no reason to spiritualize it to make it fit some pre-conceived notions about eschatology.

That's just my take on it all after having spent time in prayer, seeking the Spirit of the Lord for the truth of these things. I offered to cast aside all that I think that I know about what I read, and what came to me is that the word of God is trustworthy in what it says.

MM
Some of that ideology trickled into Southern Baptist preaching and has
roots in Catholicism. It is unfortunate but we must all determine the truth
of His word for ourselves. When reading of others' writing trumps the study
of it for ourselves we can surely fall to fallacies.
 
That is where the difference lies between the two kinds of laws .The letter of the law as it is written the things seen the whole Bible it kills pronouncing us guilty. It must be mixed with the spirit of the law, the law of faith, it heals. . . the gospel .One warns and condemn through corruption the other reveals the unseen. In that way two laws making one new law “perfect law” .The perfect and the perfected or the just and justifier.

Hmm. It was my understanding that the written law has always been righteous.

Deut. 4:8 And what nation [is there so] great, that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Moses was inspired to write that the law is righteous. Its lack was in its ability to save mankind because of our fallenness. It taught the need for a Savior.

The written law is not for us who are in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:9-11

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

I rejoice with you all for these truths.

MM
 
Some of that ideology trickled into Southern Baptist preaching and has
roots in Catholicism. It is unfortunate but we must all determine the truth
of His word for ourselves. When reading of others' writing trumps the study
of it for ourselves we can surely fall to fallacies.

Oh, yeah. RCC doctrine teaches their people that they will all go through the entire Tribulation, and that God's wrath is also for "the church" to endure.

Well, if they prefer to stay here through it all, who am I to argue? I prefer that they seek after the true Jesus of the Bible, repent, and be delivered, but if it's their thinking that they must stay here through it all, then I wish them the best of strength because they're going to need it.

1 Thess. 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

There are many different beliefs about all this, and that's fine. What I know for sure is that the Lord will do what He's going to do, no matter what any of us believes. I'm so thankful the Lord is sovereign.

MM
 

Garee

Account Closed
If I understand you correctly, I do not recall Jesus ever fleeing to the mountains or anywhere else.

Can you clarify your meaning for me, please?

MM
Having declared the temple desolate promising to never enter again is shown by the departure of words and eye witness as a parable .It showed the will of the unseen father as a witness. Declaring it desolate. The witness of his word (Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you,) was all that was needed to prove it became useless, the time or reformation had come. The reformation the pivitol point did not come in 70 AD. .It sola scriptura is still reforming the hearts of men restoring the peace of God that works in the beliver .

Again making the structure as an idol image and what it represented (Kings in Israel ) without effect by walking out. They desired he take another look at that false glory made of stone as if he missed something. . But with no hesitation he is seen on Mount of Olives. He had fled to the mountain used to represent his glory ..

Mount of Olives which literally means ‘tree of oil.” It is from a primitive root meaning “to shine.” It means It is related to the word shemesh, “to be brilliant,” and which also is the Hebrew word for the “sun,” that brightly shining orb in the sky. It represents the kingdom of God to come spoken of in Revelation 21. The Sun and the moon as temporal time keepers are no longer needed. The glory of God will be the light. In that way I think the word is used flee to the bosom of Abraham the presence of Emanuel . That I believe would help understand the phrase right after he declared it desolate “ Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” They obviously seen Jesus after that he was directing the gospel understanding to the unseen eternal not under the Sun the temporal

Again Is left desolate not wil be in the future . (the mark of the word) it had come to pass.

Matthew 23: 38-39 with Mathew 24:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

No sign was given to anticipate or wonder about. Like. . will they build another abomination of desolation and it is destroyed again . Jesus declared it’s an evil generation the looks to signs and wonders .(no faith) no sign was given other than history repeats itself un der the Sun .
 

Garee

Account Closed
Hmm. It was my understanding that the written law has always been righteous.

Deut. 4:8 And what nation [is there so] great, that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Moses was inspired to write that the law is righteous. Its lack was in its ability to save mankind because of our fallenness. It taught the need for a Savior.

The written law is not for us who are in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:9-11

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

I rejoice with you all for these truths.

MM
Yes Amen it righteously declares we are guilty .It’s by the unseen law the ”law of faith” (the unseen) that we are declared righteous according to his work of righteousness that works in us..

Therefore the letter of the law (death) mixed with the law of faith( new spirit life) creating one perfect law. The just and justifier.The Father and Son working together in perfect harmony and mutual submission to establish the government of God. No mixing of faith Christ working in us yoked with him no good news (gospel)

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

His work of rigtheousnes that he works in us with us. . . again by His faith.
 
Having declared the temple desolate promising to never enter again is shown by the departure of words and eye witness as a parable .It showed the will of the unseen father as a witness. Declaring it desolate. The witness of his word (Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you,) was all that was needed to prove it became useless, the time or reformation had come. The reformation the pivitol point did not come in 70 AD. .It sola scriptura is still reforming the hearts of men restoring the peace of God that works in the beliver .

Again making the structure as an idol image and what it represented (Kings in Israel ) without effect by walking out. They desired he take another look at that false glory made of stone as if he missed something. . But with no hesitation he is seen on Mount of Olives. He had fled to the mountain used to represent his glory ..

Mount of Olives which literally means ‘tree of oil.” It is from a primitive root meaning “to shine.” It means It is related to the word shemesh, “to be brilliant,” and which also is the Hebrew word for the “sun,” that brightly shining orb in the sky. It represents the kingdom of God to come spoken of in Revelation 21. The Sun and the moon as temporal time keepers are no longer needed. The glory of God will be the light. In that way I think the word is used flee to the bosom of Abraham the presence of Emanuel . That I believe would help understand the phrase right after he declared it desolate “ Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” They obviously seen Jesus after that he was directing the gospel understanding to the unseen eternal not under the Sun the temporal

Again Is left desolate not wil be in the future . (the mark of the word) it had come to pass.

Matthew 23: 38-39 with Mathew 24:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

No sign was given to anticipate or wonder about. Like. . will they build another abomination of desolation and it is destroyed again . Jesus declared it’s an evil generation the looks to signs and wonders .(no faith) no sign was given other than history repeats itself un der the Sun .

It appears we don't agree about prophecies of future events, which is fine. Agreement on such things is not a pre-requisite to salvation, nor does it subtract from the unity we have on Christ Jesus so long as we believe in the same Lord.

Some religions out there teach such radical departures from the Christ described in scripture that I fear for their salvation, because a contrived christ cannot save anyone. The RCC defines their Jesus as one that they call down for daily sacrifices, which some of them deny even though their catechisms teach that very thing. That is a Jesus completely unknown to the scriptures.

MM
 
Not every mention of desolation made by the Lord, His prophets, or anyone else, is a direct reference to that one event in the middle of the Tribulation.

I will let the word of God speak for itself, in context:

Matthew 24:15-22

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

That doesn't sound anything like what happened in 70 AD. If there are men who teach that out there, then I'd have to see their reasoning. I've heard "the Bible answer man" Hank Hanegraaf try to make that case, and it fell flat when I read the text for what it says. The context gives me no reason to spiritualize it to make it fit some pre-conceived notions about eschatology.

That's just my take on it all after having spent time in prayer, seeking the Spirit of the Lord for the truth of these things. I offered to cast aside all that I think that I know about what I read, and what came to me is that the word of God is trustworthy in what it says.

MM

You are correct brother.

Hank Hanagraff and RC Sproll are also Preterists.
 
Hmm. It was my understanding that the written law has always been righteous.

Deut. 4:8 And what nation [is there so] great, that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Moses was inspired to write that the law is righteous. Its lack was in its ability to save mankind because of our fallenness. It taught the need for a Savior.

The written law is not for us who are in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:9-11

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

I rejoice with you all for these truths.

MM
if we go by keeping the law and break one law we break all . this post has flipflopped in many different ways
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
if we go by keeping the law and break one law we break all . this post has flipflopped in many different ways

James 2​

10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Hello Forgiven61;

James 2:10
is clear. I have been following this thread and along the way had to go back and re-read. In my view there have been posts that may not align and some that have been a learning point for some of us.

Let's discuss this. Please explain how this post has flip flopped in many different ways?

God bless
you and your family.
 
Hello Forgiven61;

James 2:10
is clear. I have been following this thread and along the way had to go back and re-read. In my view there have been posts that may not align and some that have been a learning point for some of us.

Let's discuss this. Please explain how this post has flip flopped in many different ways?

God bless
you and your family.
from law to end time events hey i will bow out.
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
from law to end time events hey i will bow out.

Hello Forgiven61;

There is a connection. The Mosaic Law, though everyone was flawed and fell short, was designed to keep God's people in remembrance and obedience toward Him as a preparatory for the Gospels.

In between there is no lesser or higher. Both have an IMPACT in the most important goal and chief purpose in our future, that is to glorify and enjoy God forever.
 
Hello Forgiven61;

There is a connection. The Mosaic Law, though everyone was flawed and fell short, was designed to keep God's people in remembrance and obedience toward Him as a preparatory for the Gospels.

In between there is no lesser or higher. Both have an IMPACT in the most important goal and chief purpose in our future, that is to glorify and enjoy God forever.
i have never denied this about the law. but the law has never delivered a soul from eternal punishment . so tell me where does the abomination of desolation come into this to be honest your reply has left me scratching my head
 
i have never denied this about the law. but the law has never delivered a soul from eternal punishment . so tell me where does the abomination of desolation come into this to be honest your reply has left me scratching my head
you keep praying i can see this is not a post for me to discuss
 
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