Church Worship Music

[Lanolin]

Juk to answer your question i have only been going to church for about 5 years now and so have heard different styles of music in worship and songs.

I think the best ones are the hymns and the ones children can sing together in sunday school. As well as carols...also i found Scripture in Song is really good. Google it.

I dont like praise bands. im sorry. Some of the CCM and hillsong is worshipping other gods And I dont like that. When I went to church for first time I was really surpised to find many had like hard rock music with electric guitars and drums instead of choirs and people playing harps.

One time a christian friend invited me to a christian music festival meant to be for youth...but it was just like ordinary music maybe with a bit of christian message thrown in. I was very disturbed by it and thought thats not even christian, plus it cost a lot of money to go to this event.

 

[Lanolin]

Jesus did have pipers and dancers in the gospel stories. I know there is a verse referring to pipers who piped and played for ppl but they did not join in.

I think jewish ppl at the time had and still have cantors ont heir synagogues who lead the congregation in song. At passover the disciples would have sung hymns and spiritual songs...we are encouraged to do this making melody in our hearts.

I dont know about ppl saying there ought to be no musical insturments at all..that to me sounds weird but instruments accompanient is not a requiremnt. Our voices are enough. Esp if you, like me, can only play guitar by ear and not really well. Lol.

 

[Euphemia]

I dont like praise bands. im sorry. Some of the CCM and hillsong is worshipping other gods And I dont like that. When I went to church for first time I was really surpised to find many had like hard rock music with electric guitars and drums instead of choirs and people playing harps.

That is not the truth. What is coming out of Hillsong is highly anointed music.

 

[Grant Melville]

God is the giver. He gives people specific abilities so that they will be useful in service to Him. Scripturally that is proven in His use of skilled craftsmen to create beautiful and awesome holy objects for use in His tabernacle, and in the entire construction of the tabernacle. He endowed many people with the gift of music and inspired them with lyrics and music for praise to Himself. Musical instruments were created and used in His house.

I absolutely agree, God gives people special abilities, spiritual gifts, and these are listed in the New Testament. But craftsman, musician, artist... these things are not listed there. As Stephen quoted to the council of the Jews, "... the Most High dwells not in places made with hands" (Acts 7:48). What you say here is absolutely correct, and everything that God set on here was for His particular pleasure. He took pleasure in it for one reason: it all pointed to Christ, the Antitype. "Let none therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in matter of feast, or new moon, or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:17-18). All these things, the craftsmanship, the music, the fine artistic work, it was all just a shadow of the reality. We have that reality - the Jews didn't. And, practically speaking, if God still takes pleasure in musicians and instruments, doesn't He therefore still take pleasure in sacrifices, and incense, and beautiful buildings? Aren't we denying Him something by leaving all this out?

Heaven is the same---objects of beauty and music, both vocal and with instrumentation is perpetually going on.

Apart from the symbolic references in Revelation, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that there'll be instruments used in heaven. Instruments were used in Jewish worship, in an earthly system. Then we have Christianity, and there's no mention of instruments, buildings, art, or any of those things, because we're part of a heavenly system: faith has replaced sight. Then, in the Millenial period, instruments are to be used again by the earthly saints of that time. The contrast between earthly worship and heavenly worship is absolutely clear in scripture.

What is in heaven is also here on earth. It is only carnal reasoning and legalism that blocks this very simply truth and demands a reason.

The division comes from the legalistic spirit that makes a demand of the New Testament, drawing a line after the Old Testament. God hasn't changed.

God hasn't changed, that's wonderfully true. But the way He deals with man has changed, don't you think? We're no longer under law, we're under grace - this is the dispensation of grace. At Pentecost, the Spirit came down in a general way, as He'd never done before. Isn't that a fundamental change in God's dealings with man, His sending His Son into the world and giving His Spirit to men?

The contrast between Judaism and Christianity couldn't be greater, and God took pleasure in them both. That doesn't mean we can mix up elements of the two. One is earthly, the other is heavenly. We have to understand which we are, earthly or heavenly? In Luke 9, the disciples were falling back into the Jewish way of thinking, saying that the Lord should call down fire on those who rejected Him, "But turning he rebuked them and said, Ye know not of what spirit ye are." (Luke 9:55) Ye know not of what spirit ye are! Strong words. But, He was showing them a new and living way, exemplifying it perfectly in His own pathway. They were inclined to turn back to the old ways, the ways in which God once dealt - righteously - with men. The Lord Jesus is the Way, and He would show it to the disciples.

 

[Euphemia]

I absolutely agree, God gives people special abilities, spiritual gifts, and these are listed in the New Testament. But craftsman, musician, artist... these things are not listed there. As Stephen quoted to the council of the Jews, "... the Most High dwells not in places made with hands" (Acts 7:48). What you say here is absolutely correct, and everything that God set on here was for His particular pleasure. He took pleasure in it for one reason: it all pointed to Christ, the Antitype. "Let none therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in matter of feast, or new moon, or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:17-18). All these things, the craftsmanship, the music, the fine artistic work, it was all just a shadow of the reality. We have that reality - the Jews didn't. And, practically speaking, if God still takes pleasure in musicians and instruments, doesn't He therefore still take pleasure in sacrifices, and incense, and beautiful buildings? Aren't we denying Him something by leaving all this out?

What do you feel compelled to leave out?

Apart from the symbolic references in Revelation, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that there'll be instruments used in heaven. Instruments were used in Jewish worship, in an earthly system. Then we have Christianity, and there's no mention of instruments, buildings, art, or any of those things, because we're part of a heavenly system: faith has replaced sight. Then, in the Millenial period, instruments are to be used again by the earthly saints of that time. The contrast between earthly worship and heavenly worship is absolutely clear in scripture.

As Satan himself had musical instruments incorporated into his very body, I am sure that musical instruments are important in the expression of worship in music---to God.

As Holy Spirit moves us, we have no need to go running to the letter to find our sanction from God. It has always been a pleasure to God for us to express our worship to Him in any way He leads us. If that is with a drum, or even just tapping our fingers on a table---we are free to do so, and the Father enjoys it. We mustn't place carnal limits on it. You speak in favour of the yoke of legalism. Are you Church of Christ?

God hasn't changed, that's wonderfully true. But the way He deals with man has changed, don't you think? We're no longer under law, we're under grace - this is the dispensation of grace. At Pentecost, the Spirit came down in a general way, as He'd never done before. Isn't that a fundamental change in God's dealings with man, His sending His Son into the world and giving His Spirit to men?

You seem to crave being placed under some sort of law, when we are free in Christ.

The contrast between Judaism and Christianity couldn't be greater, and God took pleasure in them both. That doesn't mean we can mix up elements of the two. One is earthly, the other is heavenly. We have to understand which we are, earthly or heavenly? In Luke 9, the disciples were falling back into the Jewish way of thinking, saying that the Lord should call down fire on those who rejected Him, "But turning he rebuked them and said, Ye know not of what spirit ye are." (Luke 9:55) Ye know not of what spirit ye are! Strong words. But, He was showing them a new and living way, exemplifying it perfectly in His own pathway. They were inclined to turn back to the old ways, the ways in which God once dealt - righteously - with men. The Lord Jesus is the Way, and He would show it to the disciples.

Worship with instruments is not earthly. It is a way that we express our devotion and worship to God. To set a limit on it is carnal.

 

[Grant Melville]

What do you feel compelled to leave out?

Anything really of Jewish worship, because that was earthly. Our worship is heavenly, it's spiritual. I don't see how these things add in any way to response from the heart to God. I understand how they might help us enjoy ourselves or have an emotional effect on us, but that won't increase what's for God, because it's only natural feeling. The only thing we can offer to Him is what He has put into our hearts. In the same way, we can't offer sentimental human ideas to God, no matter how outwardly pious they might be. We can only offer Him divine impressions which have come from Himself.

As Holy Spirit moves us, we have no need to go running to the letter to find our sanction from God. It has always been a pleasure to God for us to express our worship to Him in any way He leads us. If that is with a drum, or even just tapping our fingers on a table---we are free to do so, and the Father enjoys it. We mustn't place carnal limits on it. You speak in favour of the yoke of legalism. Are you Church of Christ?

I think we do need the sanction of the Word, particularly when it comes to teaching - is what we teach founded on the Scriptures? Is what we do governed by scriptural teaching? Really, introducing elements of Judiasm into Christian worship is putting carnal limits on it, it's drawing the believer back down to earth and the things on earth, when in worship we ought to be entirely removed from that. The mount of Olives represents that, the elevation above the things of the world. The Lord led the disciples up a mountain after they sang a hymn, not to the Temple.
If we aren't going to take the New Testament scripture as a whole as our guide in worship, surely we can look at the pathway of the Lord Jesus down here. As I've said before, He never played an instrument, or did anything of the Jewish form of worship. In fact He freed His disciples from the bondage of it. He broke the Sabbath, and He could, because His is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-28). What we have to see is the contrast between Jewish bondage and Christian freedom. Legalism doesn't come into it. It's realising that we don't need any props, rituals, buildings, or officials to worship God fully and completely. If these things add nothing to the response of the heart Godward, then really, why do we bother with them? It's really only to please ourselves. While instrumental music is an innocent and wholesome pleasure in the main - and I certainly enjoy singing hymns and songs with accompaniment - it really doesn't have a place in God's house.
I'm not a member of a denomination, no.

You seem to crave being placed under some sort of law, when we are free in Christ.

I think you misunderstand me, if you think that's what I'm advocating. We are wonderfully free in Christ, we have liberty before God! The veil of the temple has been rent from top to bottom, we're free to go into the holiest of holies. How could we be freer! That being the case and Christ having done it all, can we really add anything to that finished work? Absolutely not. The younger son in Luke 15 had the best robe, a ring, and sandals on his feet - he was clothed in the worth of Christ! He was perfectly fitted to go into the Father's house and make merry. All we need to worship is Christ. Nothing else we could possibly bring - the finest gold the earth can offer - could add so much as an atom of worth to an offering which consists of that One.

Worship with instruments is not earthly. It is a way that we express our devotion and worship to God. To set a limit on it is carnal.

I know I'm repeating myself here - please bear with me - but we never in the whole of scripture find literal musical instruments connected with anything other than earthly systems of worship - the Jewish and Millenial systems.

Now... I can assure you, I'm not trying to be facetious here, I'm trying to understand the basis of the ideas you're presenting. We can do anything to express devotion and worship to God? So, if I paint a picture of a landscape, then that is an expression of worship? Or if I play an instrument, that is an expression of devotion or worship? How does what I'm doing with my hands enhance or add to what's flowing from my heart? If I worship, sitting quite still and not saying anything, is that somehow inferior to doing something with my hands while I worship? I'm sure you'd agree that it wouldn't be. So, if it my activities are adding nothing to what's flowing from my heart, then what use are the activities?

 

[Major]

Went to a church like the one above. I never went back. It wasn't worship, it was a concert. With fog machines and lighting effects.

Just not my kind of worship. Different strokes for different folks.

Amen! Singing should be God focused and not "entertainment focused". The church I attend now singing from the Broadman Hymnal, songs like Amazing Grace, Just Over The Hilltop, How Great Thou Art and those old tradition songs always brings tears of love and emotion toward a holy God.

 

[Euphemia]

I find it completely ludicrous to devise a doctrine of no musical instruments out of NOTHING SCRIPTURAL. God desires that we worship Him with all we have and with all we are---with complete abandon....Spirit-led worship doesn't forbid anything.

 

[Lanolin]

I think many in CCM is just trying to be like the world. They can make a lot of money marketing christian music. Eg amy grant.
I think she fell from grace when she committed adultery. She then wrote a book on how much she was blessed by singing christian music..materially. I think she sold out IMHO.

Others, like chris tomlin, use christian sounding kyrics to worship the devil. Hes a freemason.

Its comptelty obvious, but many young believers are fooled.

 

[Euphemia]

I think many in CCM is just trying to be like the world. They can make a lot of money marketing christian music. Eg amy grant.
I think she fell from grace when she committed adultery. She then wrote a book on how much she was blessed by singing christian music..materially. I think she sold out IMHO.

Others, like chris tomlin, use christian sounding kyrics to worship the devil. Hes a freemason.

Its comptelty obvious, but many young believers are fooled.

You are spreading lies about people, and Christ Tomlin in particular. Stop heeding gossipers. God detests it when we listen to gossip just as much as repeating it.

 

[naomanos]

I think many in CCM is just trying to be like the world. They can make a lot of money marketing christian music. Eg amy grant.
I think she fell from grace when she committed adultery. She then wrote a book on how much she was blessed by singing christian music..materially. I think she sold out IMHO.

Others, like chris tomlin, use christian sounding kyrics to worship the devil. Hes a freemason.

Its comptelty obvious, but many young believers are fooled.

Source of what you claim and validation of those sources, please. Especially in regard to Chris Tomlin.

 

[Klub]

I think many in CCM is just trying to be like the world. They can make a lot of money marketing christian music. Eg amy grant.
I think she fell from grace when she committed adultery. She then wrote a book on how much she was blessed by singing christian music..materially. I think she sold out IMHO.

Others, like chris tomlin, use christian sounding kyrics to worship the devil. Hes a freemason.

Its comptelty obvious, but many young believers are fooled.

I've heard some pretty crazy things, and crazy things happen. But I'd like to see sources for a claim like this, it's pretty substantial.

 

[Euphemia]

I've heard some pretty crazy things, and crazy things happen. But I'd like to see sources for a claim like this, it's pretty substantial.

I do believe she has posted the same claim in the past and referred to a rather shady internet gossip piece.

 

[Klub]

I googled, and the only websites I could find were really sketchy and unreliable. It was pretty much saying anybody that makes over $100k is a satanist.

 

[Euphemia]

I googled, and the only websites I could find were really sketchy and unreliable. It was pretty much saying anybody that makes over $100k is a satanist.

Right, that's about the gist of it.

 

[KingJ]

How is the worship music in your church? Can you post some examples? Is it more upbeat and fast, or slow and solemn? Something that I found about the worship music in my church is that it focuses on the believer, not God. Guess you really can't call it worship music at that point.

Hymns, organ and a guy to tell us which hymn is next. The argument of the elders is that with loud instruments its difficult to worship. They constantly distract you. Amen, thank you God....bang bang ....and some guy with a mich taking your thoughts elsewhere....then telling you what to think about.....speakers playing a wooshing sound to let everyone know that the Holy Spirit is there...annoys the bejeepers out of me.

But outside of church, I listen to any and all music. It is all about timing for me.

 

[Lanolin]

I think in many churches you have to beware they havent go musicians who actually are not christians at all, but just there to play music.

I dont know what they get out of it. But I do know that unbelievers can infiltrate a church that way.

 

[boltardy]

I think in many churches you have to beware they havent go musicians who actually are not christians at all, but just there to play music.

I'd have thought that most non Christians would not want to play in such a setting unless it was a likely stepping stone to stardom?

That said, I know someone who does sing in a choir and if I may be forgiven for paraphrasing sort of "does not believe in all that crap". Anyway, that person knows that I do believe in "that crap" (I may be a lousy Christian in many ways and don't preach but I will make it clear to people who I believe in) and I don't imagine this person goes to these things to convert people away. I only know her from secular music but even it I went to the choir where she goes I would not see it as my role to interfere with simply enjoying singing hymns.

I dont know what they get out of it. But I do know that unbelievers can infiltrate a church that way.

I can have greater concerns with Christians, eg. I know it was once almost demanded of my mother to speak in tongues. I'm not getting in to the tongues debate itself on this one really, I'm questioning that she uncomfortable with a group around her going "speak in tongues".

 

[Euphemia]

Hymns, organ and a guy to tell us which hymn is next. The argument of the elders is that with loud instruments its difficult to worship. They constantly distract you. Amen, thank you God....bang bang ....and some guy with a mich taking your thoughts elsewhere....then telling you what to think about.....speakers playing a wooshing sound to let everyone know that the Holy Spirit is there...annoys the bejeepers out of me.

When one is submitting to the Lord and values their leadership, they will submit to being led. It's not "some guy with a mich"...which is very much language revealing disrespect and lack of trust in God's leading by His Spirit.

Personally, the Lord has shown me that I must set myself free to worship Him with abandon, and my environment cannot distract me when I am fully engaged in worship and praise.

It's not about LISTENING to music, but fully entering into worship---spirit, mind and BODY.

 

[Euphemia]

I think in many churches you have to beware they havent go musicians who actually are not christians at all, but just there to play music.

I dont know what they get out of it. But I do know that unbelievers can infiltrate a church that way.

If that is your church, you need to get out of there. In a Spirit-led church---a good one---musicians and singers, etc are chosen to serve in MINISTRY to the Lord Jesus Christ. Their lives must exhibit spiritual fruit before being even considered to serve the flock in such a way.

The only way these unbelievers infiltrate is when the leadership is asleep at the wheel.