Church Worship Music

I'd have thought that most non Christians would not want to play in such a setting unless it was a likely stepping stone to stardom?

That said, I know someone who does sing in a choir and if I may be forgiven for paraphrasing sort of "does not believe in all that crap". Anyway, that person knows that I do believe in "that crap" (I may be a lousy Christian in many ways and don't preach but I will make it clear to people who I believe in) and I don't imagine this person goes to these things to convert people away. I only know her from secular music but even it I went to the choir where she goes I would not see it as my role to interfere with simply enjoying singing hymns.



I can have greater concerns with Christians, eg. I know it was once almost demanded of my mother to speak in tongues. I'm not getting in to the tongues debate itself on this one really, I'm questioning that she uncomfortable with a group around her going "speak in tongues".
Thats weird. Christians dont go round asking other christians to speak in tongues...it would probably be unbelievers curious about christianity, having heard the tongue thing, wanting evidence. Tongues are for unbelievers after all.

I think there are people who just enjoy music but not really care what its about. Its like people who listen to rock music but just totally unaware of the destructive lyrics. Some people are actually deaf. Others want to 'perform' or show off their musical talent, and the easy and most accepting place to do that is in church.
 
Tongues are for unbelievers after all.
That's very true... I don't think many people realise that.

Others want to 'perform' or show off their musical talent, and the easy and most accepting place to do that is in church.
That's also very true. Quite rightly, Christian communities are the most welcoming and supportive places on earth. There is the danger though, if we aren't careful, that we provide support for the wrong man - the old man, not the new man. I think it's easy for us to forget that "A man that flattereth his neighbour spreadeth a net for his steps." (Proverbs 29:5), and I would absolutely include myself in that - I'm the worst offender when it comes to people-pleasing. It's nice to be nice, but we need to be wise as well. "He that rebuketh a man shall afterwards find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue." (Proverbs 28:23).
 
Thats weird. Christians dont go round asking other christians to speak in tongues...it would probably be unbelievers curious about christianity, having heard the tongue thing, wanting evidence. Tongues are for unbelievers after all.

My understanding it that it came from people at least calling themselves Christian - more like a higher ranking within the church that developed and then moved on.

(Added, and re editied. It was tongue speaking Christians wanting my mother to do this)
 
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Thats weird. Christians dont go round asking other christians to speak in tongues...it would probably be unbelievers curious about christianity, having heard the tongue thing, wanting evidence. Tongues are for unbelievers after all.

I think there are people who just enjoy music but not really care what its about. Its like people who listen to rock music but just totally unaware of the destructive lyrics. Some people are actually deaf. Others want to 'perform' or show off their musical talent, and the easy and most accepting place to do that is in church.

Which is why I have said for a very long time that the best missionary field in the world is in the church pews!!!!
 
That's very true... I don't think many people realise that.


That's also very true. Quite rightly, Christian communities are the most welcoming and supportive places on earth. There is the danger though, if we aren't careful, that we provide support for the wrong man - the old man, not the new man. I think it's easy for us to forget that "A man that flattereth his neighbour spreadeth a net for his steps." (Proverbs 29:5), and I would absolutely include myself in that - I'm the worst offender when it comes to people-pleasing. It's nice to be nice, but we need to be wise as well. "He that rebuketh a man shall afterwards find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue." (Proverbs 28:23).

Amen my brother. I am fortunate that at my age I really do not have the want to, to make sure everyone likes me. I am flattered if they do but my intent now is to make God happy and if He is happy then I am as well.

Psalms 12:3.......
"The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things".
 
That's very true... I don't think many people realise that.


That's also very true. Quite rightly, Christian communities are the most welcoming and supportive places on earth. There is the danger though, if we aren't careful, that we provide support for the wrong man - the old man, not the new man. I think it's easy for us to forget that "A man that flattereth his neighbour spreadeth a net for his steps." (Proverbs 29:5), and I would absolutely include myself in that - I'm the worst offender when it comes to people-pleasing. It's nice to be nice, but we need to be wise as well. "He that rebuketh a man shall afterwards find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue." (Proverbs 28:23).

@Grant Melville @Lanolin

I would like to challenge this statement
((Tongues are for unbelievers after all. That's very true... I don't think many people realise that. ))

So praying in the spirit then would be for un-believers ?
That statement makes no sense at all.
God Bless
Jim
 
Anything really of Jewish worship, because that was earthly. Our worship is heavenly, it's spiritual. I don't see how these things add in any way to response from the heart to God. I understand how they might help us enjoy ourselves or have an emotional effect on us, but that won't increase what's for God, because it's only natural feeling. The only thing we can offer to Him is what He has put into our hearts. In the same way, we can't offer sentimental human ideas to God, no matter how outwardly pious they might be. We can only offer Him divine impressions which have come from Himself.


I think we do need the sanction of the Word, particularly when it comes to teaching - is what we teach founded on the Scriptures? Is what we do governed by scriptural teaching? Really, introducing elements of Judiasm into Christian worship is putting carnal limits on it, it's drawing the believer back down to earth and the things on earth, when in worship we ought to be entirely removed from that. The mount of Olives represents that, the elevation above the things of the world. The Lord led the disciples up a mountain after they sang a hymn, not to the Temple.
If we aren't going to take the New Testament scripture as a whole as our guide in worship, surely we can look at the pathway of the Lord Jesus down here. As I've said before, He never played an instrument, or did anything of the Jewish form of worship. In fact He freed His disciples from the bondage of it. He broke the Sabbath, and He could, because His is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-28). What we have to see is the contrast between Jewish bondage and Christian freedom. Legalism doesn't come into it. It's realising that we don't need any props, rituals, buildings, or officials to worship God fully and completely. If these things add nothing to the response of the heart Godward, then really, why do we bother with them? It's really only to please ourselves. While instrumental music is an innocent and wholesome pleasure in the main - and I certainly enjoy singing hymns and songs with accompaniment - it really doesn't have a place in God's house.
I'm not a member of a denomination, no.


I think you misunderstand me, if you think that's what I'm advocating. We are wonderfully free in Christ, we have liberty before God! The veil of the temple has been rent from top to bottom, we're free to go into the holiest of holies. How could we be freer! That being the case and Christ having done it all, can we really add anything to that finished work? Absolutely not. The younger son in Luke 15 had the best robe, a ring, and sandals on his feet - he was clothed in the worth of Christ! He was perfectly fitted to go into the Father's house and make merry. All we need to worship is Christ. Nothing else we could possibly bring - the finest gold the earth can offer - could add so much as an atom of worth to an offering which consists of that One.


I know I'm repeating myself here - please bear with me - but we never in the whole of scripture find literal musical instruments connected with anything other than earthly systems of worship - the Jewish and Millenial systems.

Now... I can assure you, I'm not trying to be facetious here, I'm trying to understand the basis of the ideas you're presenting. We can do anything to express devotion and worship to God? So, if I paint a picture of a landscape, then that is an expression of worship? Or if I play an instrument, that is an expression of devotion or worship? How does what I'm doing with my hands enhance or add to what's flowing from my heart? If I worship, sitting quite still and not saying anything, is that somehow inferior to doing something with my hands while I worship? I'm sure you'd agree that it wouldn't be. So, if it my activities are adding nothing to what's flowing from my heart, then what use are the activities?

Singing has no place in Gods House ? Did I read this right ? If so that is a hoot.
The angles sing unto the Lord. The blessing taught David to pick and when david picked it drove deamons away.

God gives us all special abilities and talents and they are not listed in the bible - does this mean they are wrong ?
Grant if I have been mis-reading what you are saying then forgive me.
God Bless
Jim
 
If that is your church, you need to get out of there. In a Spirit-led church---a good one---musicians and singers, etc are chosen to serve in MINISTRY to the Lord Jesus Christ. Their lives must exhibit spiritual fruit before being even considered to serve the flock in such a way.

The only way these unbelievers infiltrate is when the leadership is asleep at the wheel.

I am not sure what I am reading in this thread sister. Do you have aany idea where these thoughts are coming from ?
Wow
Jim
 
How is the worship music in your church? Can you post some examples? Is it more upbeat and fast, or slow and solemn? Something that I found about the worship music in my church is that it focuses on the believer, not God. Guess you really can't call it worship music at that point.
What are some examples of worship songs in your church Juk?
 
Don't you think it's dangerous though, to mix in things that appeal to the flesh? It's apt to allow the same line of thought that caused the disciples to admire stones and buildings (Mark 13:1) and the Lord has to answer that: "Seest thou these great buildings? not a stone shall be left upon a stone, which shall not be thrown down." (Mark 13:2). The Temple is really a substantial figure of the old system, one of physical things, imposing things which appeal to the eye. Early believers worshipped in the Temple (see Acts 24:11 with reference to Paul), because God in His grace allowed the two things to go on together for a time, but there came a point when the Jewish system was utterly done with, "and immediately the doors [of the Temple] were shut." (Acts 21:30). You might say, that was the definitive rejection by the religious system of the day of the new heavenly order, and the point where the two were completely and finally separated. Believers didn't go up to the Temple to worship after that.

I have a question for you. If you had a bunch of people that you just pulled off of the streets, and you are trying to convince them that Being a Christian is not a drag or boring and stuffy, and they were used to loud music and partying, dancing and such.....do you think that orderly praise and worship with the ability of dancing and using all of the people's senses would encourage them to come back?

If churches don't minister to the sick and dying (spiritually and physically) which was the original reason why Jesus came in the first place, then they will either just die in their sin or go somewhere they can be fed in all ways. If they die in their sin....someone in the church will be held accountable. And praise is one of the main things things that ushers in the Holy Spirit....for the Bible says that God inhabits the praises of His People.

All throughout the Bible we see that the Israelites celebrated and praised God with everything that they had, and many, many instruments. They were loud and of one accord. And God was pleased....because in all honesty He desired praise instead of sacrifice.

Just something to think about :)
 
Others want to 'perform' or show off their musical talent, and the easy and most accepting place to do that is in church.

I'd probably disagree here not that I've tried to perform in church or know how many may work.

I think much is dependent on what you mean though.

The easiest places to get up on stage or even give a song from the floor I'd say are the small folk clubs with an anyone should be given a chance type policy. You can sing as yourself in them without having to put on your best pop star, choir boy, opera diva or whatever accent (although some do otherwise).

There again, it's not for everyone and for some even karaoke may be easier, for others again, an open mic would be the best bet.

For joining in one could even sing in crowds at football and rugby matches. I'll pick on the Welsh National Anthem. There's a few thousand voices there.


I think at least with the more traditional hymns a non believer would be have to be drawn to the music and I'd guess have some dedication to learning parts to for example join a choir.

I don't know how other styles of church music may work - can it be more for example open mic in nature?
 
When there is a gifted and anointed worship leader in the church...i can guarantee that not just anyone can get up on the platform and help to usher in the Holy Spirit.

And to say that people are just showing off, well in my opinion we have no right to make that judgement. Only God knows what is in their hearts. And if you are having those thoughts that means instead of focusing on the Savior and the one to whom you are committing your worship to, the devil has you side tracked with being offended by someone else. And that in itself is a sin. So check your rocks at the door and go to concentrate on communing with your Father, instead of judging somoeone else's style of praise and worship.

Blessings
 
When there is a gifted and anointed worship leader in the church...i can guarantee that not just anyone can get up on the platform and help to usher in the Holy Spirit.

And to say that people are just showing off, well in my opinion we have no right to make that judgement. Only God knows what is in their hearts. And if you are having those thoughts that means instead of focusing on the Savior and the one to whom you are committing your worship to, the devil has you side tracked with being offended by someone else. And that in itself is a sin. So check your rocks at the door and go to concentrate on communing with your Father, instead of judging somoeone else's style of praise and worship.

Blessings

I like this !
Thanks Cturtle
<>< JMW ><>
 
I think those who grew up in church but not yet saved might fall into this category...they may give lip service to Him but they dont believe in their heart.

Some churches are despearate to have musicians in their worship team but dont actually check these ppls convictions..and then theres mixtures of music. God doesnt like mixture of worldly music with His sacred music.

People who think He does are sorely mistaken. Our God is holy and wants those who worship him in spirit and in truth. God doesnt want praise instead of sacrifice. God in israelites times wanted his people to obey him. We cant flatter God, he is not fooled by this.

Cturtle look in your bible. 1 samuel 15:22
 
Juk check out scripture in Song. This is good songs, easy to sing and biblical.

Husband and wife team the Garretts led this and its an amazing testimony how their songs came about. They didnt even know how to play musical instruments when God led them into this music ministry.
 
The garretts related how one time they had a musician on their recordings who was not a christian and how detrimental it was to record this. The song then wasnt anointed...so did not have the impact that their other recordings had. He was a professional musician though...but God only wanted believers singing his praises.
 
Choirs are fine, nothing wrong with choirs and I never found them stuffy or boring. In fact, i find rock music really boring..it just sounds the same as worldly music. . Choirs to me are a breath of fresh air...and intensely spiritual. Like you have a clean feeling of lifting up your voice to the Lord withiut distraction of all these instruments.

I think even Miriam got a bit proud of her tambourine in OT days. Before they knew it Aaron had led the isralites astray dancing around a golden calf. Lol.
 
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