Church Worship Music

[geralduk]

How is the worship music in your church? Can you post some examples? Is it more upbeat and fast, or slow and solemn? Something that I found about the worship music in my church is that it focuses on the believer, not God. Guess you really can't call it worship music at that point.

A lot of what is called worship music is not only a manipulation of the senses but its presentation is not unlike a rock concert.
The worship of God is the highest form of service we can give God it is also the very thing that the devil desires above all else .
The worship of God cannot be commanded into existence .Like you hear many a 'leader' saying lets now worship the Lord.
The worship of God commands the whole man and all himself. He is 'lost' in the worship of God . For there is none beside him .
But they that worship God must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
Praise is not worship though it might lead to the worship of God.
It is as the Holy Spirit leads us to consider all that we know to be true about God and all that He is that we are led out into the worship of God.
It can only be done in the Spirit.
How then can a worldly unGodly rock concert either honour God or lead to the worship of God .More ;likely to the worship of man .
I once went to a crusade meeting in Wembly and all around the perimeter of the hall were stalls all selling various things .
One stall caught my eye . It was selling T shirts in a 'gothic' style with the lettering in old english as goths seem to like .
The words written on the T shirt ;I thought said "worship the beast" Shocked I took a double look and it actually read "worship the best" only one letter different but what a difference that one letter made.
Yet the stall and the T shirts were projecting one thing and the words said another .
"If any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new creation ,old things have passed away and behold all things have become new "
God does not make a goth a christian goth , or rock music ,christian rock .
If you are born of heaven then the life and the music will be inspired by heaven and the Holy Spirit not of the world or the devil come to that .
Some times it is slow sometimes it is faster .Sometimes not at all . But always honours God and in the Spirit .
in Christ
gerald

 

[geralduk]

The garretts related how one time they had a musician on their recordings who was not a christian and how detrimental it was to record this. The song then wasnt anointed...so did not have the impact that their other recordings had. He was a professional musician though...but God only wanted believers singing his praises.

The praise of God is one thing the worship of God quite another . and men who are not saved may indeed thank God and praise him. But they cannot worship God.
Why anyone should have an unsaved person on the platform playing music or leading the singing is beyond me . For will they not jar with the playing and the spirit of the others?
Even a christian out of sync with the Lord will be out of sync with the others .How much the more will an unsaved person be?
in Christ
gerald

 

[geralduk]

I have nothing against any "special effect" especially when the one operating these things is Spirit-filled and doing it unto the Lord...much the same way as the one who cleans the church toilets is also putting his hand to work for God with all His might.

Ecclesiastes 9:10a
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,

With some justification you can criticise the Roman church or the Church of England for all its substitutes for reality .
The candles for the Holy Spirit, the Incense for prayer , the unreal voices for spirituality , and so on.
What difference then is all the effects of a rock concert in a supposed 'christian' setting'?
Are they not also substitutes for reality?
That like the ritualistic churches that feed all the senses with thier man made traditions . Does not these worldly concerts simply do the same thing? Of course they do.
What need is there for strobe lighting? I found them in the world.
What need for smoke effects ? I found them in the world too.
What need of fleshly gyrations in 'dance' .I found them also .
If you use the world to gain the world you will need the world to keep them.
A man sin sick sore and tired of the world and seeking he knows not what but which is in fact God will turn away from any church that eh finds the same thing in that church that eh found in the world and is sick of.
What men are supposed to find in the church is salt !
and reality .
and by reality I mean the reality of the presence of God .
and a people walking in the light as he is in the light .........
"Whatever you find to do........." clearly cannot and does not mean doing evil or that which does not honour God.
in Christ
gerald

 

[geralduk]

The use of musical instruments was both practiced and laid out in the Old testament in the ministration of the Temple .
Given that it was "after the pattern of the heavenly" (Hebrews) Then the use of musical instruments is justified . HOW they are used is of course another matter.
That harps are mentioned as you say in heaven would confirm this .
David comes to mind of course as also to his playing and his singing. If God gives you a talent then you must give it to God to sanctify it and use it for the kingdom of God and in His service. Talent NOT sanctified is a talent wasted .


in Christ
gerald

 

[Euphemia]

I have a question for you. If you had a bunch of people that you just pulled off of the streets, and you are trying to convince them that Being a Christian is not a drag or boring and stuffy, and they were used to loud music and partying, dancing and such.....do you think that orderly praise and worship with the ability of dancing and using all of the people's senses would encourage them to come back?

If churches don't minister to the sick and dying (spiritually and physically) which was the original reason why Jesus came in the first place, then they will either just die in their sin or go somewhere they can be fed in all ways. If they die in their sin....someone in the church will be held accountable. And praise is one of the main things things that ushers in the Holy Spirit....for the Bible says that God inhabits the praises of His People.

All throughout the Bible we see that the Israelites celebrated and praised God with everything that they had, and many, many instruments. They were loud and of one accord. And God was pleased....because in all honesty He desired praise instead of sacrifice.

Just something to think about

I have thought of asking the same thing! Reading your post, the verse that kept playing over and over in my mind is this:

1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

[Euphemia]

When there is a gifted and anointed worship leader in the church...i can guarantee that not just anyone can get up on the platform and help to usher in the Holy Spirit.

And to say that people are just showing off, well in my opinion we have no right to make that judgement. Only God knows what is in their hearts. And if you are having those thoughts that means instead of focusing on the Savior and the one to whom you are committing your worship to, the devil has you side tracked with being offended by someone else. And that in itself is a sin. So check your rocks at the door and go to concentrate on communing with your Father, instead of judging somoeone else's style of praise and worship.

Blessings

 

[Euphemia]

I think those who grew up in church but not yet saved might fall into this category...they may give lip service to Him but they dont believe in their heart.

Some churches are despearate to have musicians in their worship team but dont actually check these ppls convictions..and then theres mixtures of music. God doesnt like mixture of worldly music with His sacred music.

You shouldn't speak for God. Music is music and He is the creator of it, and the rightful owner of it. When Spirit-filled and free people worship God in music, we do so having taken back what Satan stole and perverted and in purity of heart, offer it to God---who is well pleased.

People who think He does are sorely mistaken. Our God is holy and wants those who worship him in spirit and in truth. God doesnt want praise instead of sacrifice. God in israelites times wanted his people to obey him. We cant flatter God, he is not fooled by this.

You don't fool Him or me with your false judgment.

 

[Euphemia]

With some justification you can criticise the Roman church or the Church of England for all its substitutes for reality .
The candles for the Holy Spirit, the Incense for prayer , the unreal voices for spirituality , and so on.
What difference then is all the effects of a rock concert in a supposed 'christian' setting'?
Are they not also substitutes for reality?
That like the ritualistic churches that feed all the senses with thier man made traditions . Does not these worldly concerts simply do the same thing? Of course they do.
What need is there for strobe lighting? I found them in the world.
What need for smoke effects ? I found them in the world too.
What need of fleshly gyrations in 'dance' .I found them also .
If you use the world to gain the world you will need the world to keep them.
A man sin sick sore and tired of the world and seeking he knows not what but which is in fact God will turn away from any church that eh finds the same thing in that church that eh found in the world and is sick of.
What men are supposed to find in the church is salt !
and reality .
and by reality I mean the reality of the presence of God .
and a people walking in the light as he is in the light .........
"Whatever you find to do........." clearly cannot and does not mean doing evil or that which does not honour God.
in Christ
gerald

That you sit and judge what to you is "fleshly" is not so to God, who dances over us, and spins and jumps as well. We do as He does. If you study the words in scripture that are expressed as "joy", you will see how exultant it is and how it is expressed physically.

Everything that aids in worship is useful to us and available to us, and is not inherently evil.

It is only human religion that corrals worship, when in heaven it is unrestrained, and should be for us.

For those of you who criticize lively worship of God when Christians come together, you won't like heaven much.

We had a couple in our church a few years ago who were in a TV show about marriage and finances, and the production wanted to film them in church for a quick segment, so permission was granted for the TV crew to film them in worship. The producer, a young woman, came into the sanctuary when we began worship and was overcome with the power of the Holy Spirit on her and she began to weep, and had to actually step outside the sanctuary. The Holy Spirit was heavy on her, an unbeliever. She was overwhelmed by it. This is what happens with those who are unbelievers when they visit---Holy Spirit is PRESENT! There is NO COMPARISON between what the world does and what the people of God do!

 

[Euphemia]

Shout!

Psalm 95:1-2 NLT
Come, let us sing to the Lord!
Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.
Let us come to him with thanksgiving.
Let us sing psalms of praise to him.

Yes, let’s come, gather together as one heart before the Lord and offer Him sacrifices of praise. Shout loudly in shouts of praise and adoration!

Regularly our pastors instruct us to offer up shouts to the Lord—shouts of praise, of warfare, as at Jericho, of claimed victory, of joy! When we do this, we are released into such joy in the Lord, you can almost touch it! Many wince at the thought of loud cheers and roaring, but if we can roar in a football stadium for our favourite team, we can most certainly roar with praise and adoration for our Most High God! God is pleased with it!

Yes, let’s shout our praise and thanks to our God! He, who has given all He has to secure us an eternity! He, who cares infinitely more than we do for our most basic needs and details of our lives.

Yes, let us lend our voices to music, and offer up songs and notes to our Father who revels in our worship!

Jesus Christ, we thank You and honour You!


NEW (Euphemia)
11/20/07

 

[Euphemia]

The use of musical instruments was both practiced and laid out in the Old testament in the ministration of the Temple .
Given that it was "after the pattern of the heavenly" (Hebrews) Then the use of musical instruments is justified . HOW they are used is of course another matter.
That harps are mentioned as you say in heaven would confirm this .
David comes to mind of course as also to his playing and his singing. If God gives you a talent then you must give it to God to sanctify it and use it for the kingdom of God and in His service. Talent NOT sanctified is a talent wasted .


in Christ
gerald

A guitar is a harp. Spirit-filled and Spirit-led guitarists know how to worship with their instruments. It's the same with drummers and trombonists and violinists and pianists, etc, etc, etc!

 

[naomanos]

That you sit and judge what to you is "fleshly" is not so to God, who dances over us, and spins and jumps as well.

I am being genuinely curious here. Where does it say that God spins and jumps?

 

[geralduk]

That you sit and judge what to you is "fleshly" is not so to God, who dances over us, and spins and jumps as well. We do as He does. If you study the words in scripture that are expressed as "joy", you will see how exultant it is and how it is expressed physically.

Everything that aids in worship is useful to us and available to us, and is not inherently evil.

It is only human religion that corrals worship, when in heaven it is unrestrained, and should be for us.

For those of you who criticize lively worship of God when Christians come together, you won't like heaven much.

We had a couple in our church a few years ago who were in a TV show about marriage and finances, and the production wanted to film them in church for a quick segment, so permission was granted for the TV crew to film them in worship. The producer, a young woman, came into the sanctuary when we began worship and was overcome with the power of the Holy Spirit on her and she began to weep, and had to actually step outside the sanctuary. The Holy Spirit was heavy on her, an unbeliever. She was overwhelmed by it. This is what happens with those who are unbelievers when they visit---Holy Spirit is PRESENT! There is NO COMPARISON between what the world does and what the people of God do!

Why is it that if a person questions something as being dubious at best or as I did compared how ritualistic services which have all manner of substitutes for the reality of the presence oi God. etc.
Which feed the flesh and its senses with other services that are at the opposite extreme that uses other things as substitutes being but two halves of the same coin. Then I am judging as you put it.
Are we not to try the spirits? Is not "a spiritual man able to judge all things........."?
Are we to as blindly accept anything as of God just because God is mentioned or the name Jesus is used?
I dont think so.
I object to smoke and mirrors and flashing lights and a rythm of drum and guitar so strong that like the world it pushes out most if not all thought .
In answer to the response of the lady. I know of a man who went to a tent meeting to mock but as he stepped in to the tent the minister at the front just happened to say "let us bow our hearts and pray" and the man quite simply bowed his head ...
He was converted that night .
I have felt the presence of God and the power of God in meetings .
The scriptures say that it is the cross and the preaching of the cross that draws men to God .Nothing else .
"If I be lifted up I will draw al men unto me " That is not lifting up to heaven. But lifting up onto the cross .
Wild music and worldly services will not draw men to God nor can it.
If you use the world to gain the world then you will keep the world to keep them.
enthusiasm is different than zeal or indeed passion .
When the music stops and all is silent where then do you go?
I have been to rock concerts ,football stadiums and parties.
When I go to church .I want to be in the presence of God.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Euphemia]

I am being genuinely curious here. Where does it say that God spins and jumps?

You have to do a study of the word "joy" as I said. One word that is sued in scripture is "rinnah", which is used in and means to shout with joy, and also there is another word, "simchah", which refers to joy as in glee or mirth, and then there is another Hebrew word for joy, "ranan", which means to cry out with a strident voice in joy. another word, in Hebrew used in scriptures for "joy" is "ספין", or giyl gul, which means to spin or twirl with exultation and joy, and refers to God doing so. There are several words used for joy, exultation, mirth, glee and rejoicing, and spinning, twirling or dancing is also a part of the expression of the emotion inherent in the meaning and use of the word.

English is so very limited, that it is no wonder that people cannot grasp the full extent of the joy of the Lord. This is why we need to study the scriptures in view of the original languages. I am so much in need of doing this more regularly, but I am ever so grateful to God for showing me about His joy through a study of the Hebrew.

 

[naomanos]

You have to do a study of the word "joy" as I said. One word that is sued in scripture is "rinnah", which is used in and means to shout with joy, and also there is another word, "simchah", which refers to joy as in glee or mirth, and then there is another Hebrew word for joy, "ranan", which means to cry out with a strident voice in joy. another word, in Hebrew used in scriptures for "joy" is "ספין", or giyl gul, which means to spin or twirl with exultation and joy, and refers to God doing so. There are several words used for joy, exultation, mirth, glee and rejoicing, and spinning, twirling or dancing is also a part of the expression of the emotion inherent in the meaning and use of the word.

English is so very limited, that it is no wonder that people cannot grasp the full extent of the joy of the Lord. This is why we need to study the scriptures in view of the original languages. I am so much in need of doing this more regularly, but I am ever so grateful to God for showing me about His joy through a study of the Hebrew.

Thank you for your response.

I just don't have the time to learn Hebrew and Biblical Greek.

I would love to learn Spanish so that I can converse with and understand 1/2 of my wife's family when they speak in their native tongue, but have found it difficult to grasp and don't have the time to really study. I find the same issue with the Biblical languages.

So I must stick with plain old English.

 

[Euphemia]

Why is it that if a person questions something as being dubious at best or as I did compared how ritualistic services which have all manner of substitutes for the reality of the presence oi God. etc.
Which feed the flesh and its senses with other services that are at the opposite extreme that uses other things as substitutes being but two halves of the same coin. Then I am judging as you put it.
Are we not to try the spirits? Is not "a spiritual man able to judge all things........."?
Are we to as blindly accept anything as of God just because God is mentioned or the name Jesus is used?
I dont think so.
I object to smoke and mirrors and flashing lights and a rythm of drum and guitar so strong that like the world it pushes out most if not all thought .
In answer to the response of the lady. I know of a man who went to a tent meeting to mock but as he stepped in to the tent the minister at the front just happened to say "let us bow our hearts and pray" and the man quite simply bowed his head ...
He was converted that night .
I have felt the presence of God and the power of God in meetings .
The scriptures say that it is the cross and the preaching of the cross that draws men to God .Nothing else .
"If I be lifted up I will draw al men unto me " That is not lifting up to heaven. But lifting up onto the cross .
Wild music and worldly services will not draw men to God nor can it.
If you use the world to gain the world then you will keep the world to keep them.
enthusiasm is different than zeal or indeed passion .
When the music stops and all is silent where then do you go?
I have been to rock concerts ,football stadiums and parties.
When I go to church .I want to be in the presence of God.

in Christ
gerald

When Holy Spirit anoints a person to do a thing, it is done with excellence and He causes us to worship with abandon.

The criticisms against the use of anything in worship such as drums and other instruments and even technology is really just a fleshly criticism, not unlike the criticism that came from the mouth of David's wife, Michal, who offended God with her denunciation of David's worship with wild abandon and God cursed her womb for it.

Be careful of what you condemn!

James 5:9
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you [yourselves] may not be judged. Look! The Judge is [already] standing at the very door.

 

[Euphemia]

Thank you for your response.

I just don't have the time to learn Hebrew and Biblical Greek.

I would love to learn Spanish so that I can converse with and understand 1/2 of my wife's family when they speak in their native tongue, but have found it difficult to grasp and don't have the time to really study. I find the same issue with the Biblical languages.

So I must stick with plain old English.

Then you will continue in your error, and make false judgments against the brethren. God has blessed you with the same 24 hours a day as everyone else has.

 

[naomanos]

Then you will continue in your error, and make false judgments against the brethren. God has blessed you with the same 24 hours a day as everyone else has.

Yes, but many are not as busy as I am within that 24 hours of time. Many are lucky and do not have the amount of responsibility that I have on my shoulder's being a caregiver to a disabled wife and a father. My time is very limited, and the time that I do have, is not enough to seriously learn Hebrew and Biblical Greek to where I will be able to understand what it is that I am reading. I do need to sleep.

If you have the time, good for you, but do me a favor. Do not come down on me for not having the time that you do. God has blessed me with the responsibilities that I have and that is what I am focused on.

While I am commanded to study the Bible, there is nothing that says I must learn ancient languages to do so. I am doing the best that I can with the life that I have been given according to what I am able to do.

 

[Euphemia]

Yes, but many are not as busy as I am within that 24 hours of time. Many are lucky and do not have the amount of responsibility that I have on my shoulder's being a caregiver to a disabled wife and a father. My time is very limited, and the time that I do have, is not enough to seriously learn Hebrew and Biblical Greek to where I will be able to understand what it is that I am reading. I do need to sleep.

If you have the time, good for you, but do me a favor. Do not come down on me for not having the time that you do. God has blessed me with the responsibilities that I have and that is what I am focused on.

While I am commanded to study the Bible, there is nothing that says I must learn ancient languages to do so. I am doing the best that I can with the life that I have been given according to what I am able to do.

I haven't devoted any time to study Hebrew. I am saying one needs to study the word in view of the original languages. It doesn't take loads of time to gain understanding by word searches, and prayerful study.

I don't come down on you for your busy-ness. We are all busy, but we cannot use busy-ness as an excuse for not understanding God or His word. He won't hear of it.

 

[naomanos]

I haven't devoted any time to study Hebrew. I am saying one needs to study the word in view of the original languages. It doesn't take loads of time to gain understanding by word searches, and prayerful study.

I don't come down on you for your busy-ness. We are all busy, but we cannot use busy-ness as an excuse for not understanding God or His word. He won't hear of it.

Yet I do understand it without going to the original languages, why? Because the Holy Spirit reveals truth to me as I read the Bible, again without learning the original languages.

If you notice, I said in the beginning of this thread that for me, fog machines and light effects cross into the realm of entertainment. That is my opinion. I do not believe that I have ever come down on a church that uses those things. As my marriage counselor says, people can have an opinion, it doesn't mean that they are coming down on you for having that opinion.

It's just not for me, so I will not attend a church such as that. I have attended churches (I even said so) that have contemporary Christian songs for worship music. I even will sing along. They didn't have fog machines and light effects.

If a church wants to use those things, I don't care if they do. I just will not attend a church such as that.

 

[Lanolin]

Many of those unsaved in church are family members, im observing, or friends of the minsiters children who are perhaps into music. Then these friends get invited to play in the 'worship team' but they are still unsaved. These youth may be into CCM but CCM never saved anybody.
Its only the gospel, Jesus who saves.

That is why we need to be careful of musicians in our churches...that they all believers, and the God they worship is our Lord Jesus' Father not the god of this world.