Im Getting Discouraged : /

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JustPassingThru said:
"God doesn't say one word about women not being pastors,"

I'm sorry to have to say this, but in humility and love I must disagree, first may I say I have read many of your posts and I know you have been taught by the Holy Spirit, but it's clear from New Testament doctrine the office of pastor is a gift given by the Lord and it is given to men.

The word overseer is used once in the New Testament, in Acts 20:28 and the word in the Greek is episkopos, the same word Paul uses to explain the requirements for what we call today bishops or elders,

This is a true saying, If a man desires the office of a bishop, he desires a good work. 1Ti 3:1

and,

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou should set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; Tit 1:5-7

There are verses, ordained by God, about men being pastors and there is a verse, ordained by God, that forbids women to hold the office of pastor,

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1Ti 2:12

As you have stated, teaching is linked to pastoring I hope you can see that Paul teaches that any woman that is in the office of pastor and teaching is usurping that authority from the man the Lord has given the gift to, the word authenteō is used for to usurp authority over and Strong's definition is to act of oneself, clearly showing/stating that a woman pastor is ordained by/from herself and it's not a gift from the Lord.

When he (Jesus) ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Eph 4:8

The gifts being,

And he (Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:11

I'm sorry for the hijack Pancakes, but this needed to be dealt with from the Word.

Blessings,

Gene





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This is not the place for debate of that matter---suffice it to say that the fact that the OP has a female leader is not against scripture and anybody reducing this discussion to point out anything adverse concerning that is wayward.

Some people cannot discern the difference between men and mankind in general, which is determined by knowing the meaning of 'anthropos', found in Ephesians 4:8. To think that women are bereft of spiritual gifts based on their plumbing is absurd. Perhaps a study in the biblical root language is in order. Maybe a better understanding of 'usurp' will help, also.
 
Or how about a better understanding of the meaning of,

the husband of one wife.....

I think that is enough understanding for most lay people, so let's not confuse the subject,


.....when women become husbands then let's talk some more................................................................., uh oh, looks like I've spoken too soon!

I am going to stand on what is written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and not how any 'anthropos', tries to interpretate the Word.

Blessings,

Gene
 
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JustPassingThru said:
Or how about a better understanding of the meaning of,

the husband of one wife.....

I think that is enough understanding for most lay people, so let's not confuse the subject,


.....when women become husbands then let's talk some more................................................................., uh oh, looks like I've spoken too soon!

I am going to stand on what is written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and not how any 'anthropos', tries to interpretate the Word.

Blessings,

Gene
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In the first century, women were not able to emancipate themselves from husbands and live in a manner where they could take on more than one husband at a time---but men could. Males dominated completely. That is why Paul doesn't make a stipulation about that to women. It would be absurd.
 
What does that have to do with pastor and teacher?


Let's look at the meaning of "anthropos',

from Strong's Dictionary:
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.

Used 560 times in the New Testament and yes it is used to mean mankind (including women), but Paul defined what was his intended meaning of the word in 1 Tim 3:2 when he clarified it with the word
an'-ayr (husband) which means a male of the homo sapiens species.

Now, I never said women didn't have gifts, that is what you read into what I said, ...I said women were not given the gift of the office of pastor and teacher by the Lord, ...women do have the gift of teaching and it is to be used in the office of a deaconess to teach other women and children, ...that way they are in obedience and compliance to Father and His written Word and not in a position of authority over men, ...my God is a God of order.

Blessings,

Gene
 
JustPassingThru said:
What does that have to do with pastor and teacher?
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Whatever. You brought it up. Women didn't need the admonition to be married to only one man because they could only take one man in marriage. The pattern of willy nilly divorce and remarriage was in men.

Now, I never said women didn't have gifts, that is what you read into what I said, ...I said women were not given the gift of the office of pastor and teacher by the Lord, ...women do have the gift of teaching and it is to be used in the office of a deaconess to teach other women and children, ...that way they are in obedience and compliance to Father and His written Word and not in a position of authority over men, ...my God is a God of order.

Blessings,

Gene
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Phoebe was a pastor and an important friend and teacher to Paul.
 
Euphemia said:
This is not the place for debate of that matter---suffice it to say that the fact that the OP has a female leader is not against scripture and anybody reducing this discussion to point out anything adverse concerning that is wayward.

Some people cannot discern the difference between men and mankind in general, which is determined by knowing the meaning of 'anthropos', found in Ephesians 4:8. To think that women are bereft of spiritual gifts based on their plumbing is absurd. Perhaps a study in the biblical root language is in order. Maybe a better understanding of 'usurp' will help, also.
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I can make a good case for women apostles. But the comment about the plumbing was funny.
 
What do you consider a blessing? Maybe you are blessed and just don't know it. The bible says God will discipline the ones he loves. Maybe you are thinking God is ignoring you, but maybe He is teaching you patience.

I have a family member that acts like a heathen. He was living with a girl outside of marriage and was completely okay with it, and his girl doesn't even believe in God... Yet he gets everything that he wants. He gets away with everything. From a worldly perspective I'm sure people would think this is a blessing. It's not. Why does the bible say to consider it pure joy when we face troubles? What does this do for us? Read James 1 and see what the real blessing is.
 
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pancakes said:
For a while.. I've been thinking. .. what's the point.

Last Sunday I think my pastor pointed out I was being religious. Which I agree, reading ( which I rarely do now) and praying and going to church can become routine when you lose your zeal.

She went to Rev ch 2, you know the church of Ephesus. .. they worked diligently and patiently....and Jesus himself warned that He'd remove their lampstand if they didn't turn back to their first love.


And it made me feel like..whats the point, if my best is religious?
I've tried to talk to God and chase Him ...but He rarely talks back..its a onesided relationship. ...
Yet my other members who left our church...hear Him crystal clear..

And are blessed by Him

Idk, it seems so backwards. .. I want to talk to God more than He wants to talk to me ..but He just won't. ..and Im tired of chasing someone who ignores me. : /

And, My life doesn't display His fruits...you know in Galatians...
I don't know what to do ..bc only God can bear the fruit..yet I can't hear Him...in someways I feel damned already...

Its so unfair I want to change but HE won't do it... idk Im just frustrated. .. and discouraged and want to give up.

= <
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TEA CUP STORY
A couple went into an antique shop over in Europe and they saw this little tea cup sitting way up on the top shelf. It was such..fine..china… and so beautiful… (that’s how God sees You)
They said… OH… we want that tea cup.
So, the owner got it down for them and they were admiring the tea cup… and SUDDENLY the tea cup began to speak.
And it said… “I didn’t always look this way. There was a time when I was just a hard, cold, gray lump of clay.”
“The Master came along & picked me up & he started to pat me & roll me. And I thought….. WHAT ARE YOU DOING…. STOP THAT … THAT HURTS”
“He would just pat & roll & pat & roll… He was changing my shape. I thought … I DON’T LIKE THIS… WHAT ARE YOU DOING… LEAVE ME ALONE..”
He just simply said… “not yet”
Then He put me on this wheel….. and began to spin me around & around & around. And I said.. “GET ME OFF OF HERE… I’M DIZZY… I CAN’T TAKE ANYMORE OF THIS… I’M GOING TO PASS OUT.”
And he just simply looked at me and said…”not yet”
“Then He formed me into this tea cup.. and stuck me in this oven… and He began to bake me… The oven had this little glass window in it & the master was looking in at me.” I screamed…... “GET ME OUT OF HERE, GET ME OUT OF HERE…” “DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND, I’M SUFFICATING IN HERE…. GET ME OUT OF HERE… I CAN’T TAKE THIS..”
He just looked at me with a big smile on His face, and compassion in His eyes and said….”not yet”
“Finally, He took me out and painted me all over… and it STUNK….. and I coughed…and said…. I CAN’T TAKE THIS… THAT STINKS… STOP IT.”
He smiled and said….”not yet”
“Then finally…………. He put me up on a shelf to dry and I thought shewwww….finally.”
“A few days went by and He came and got me off the shelf…. Turned up that blasted oven TWICE AS HOT… AS BEFORE … AND STUCK ME BACK IN THERE AGAIN”
“I said…I CAN’T STAND THIS…. I CAN’T TAKE THIS.. YOU GOT TO GET ME OUT OF HERE…. NOWWWW….. THIS IS KILLING ME…….”
And He would just look and smile and say “not yet”
FINALLY…. The time came, He opened up the door and put me on the shelf and He gave me a mirror and said…”Now look at what you’ve become”
AND… I JUST COULDN’T BELIEVE HOW BEAUTIFUL I WAS… cause the last time I looked, I was just that old hard, cold gray lump of clay”… God knows your potential too, my friend……allow the Father to hold you in the palm of His hand and shape & mold you into being all He knows you can be…………………
 
pancakes said:
For a while.. I've been thinking. .. what's the point.

Last Sunday I think my pastor pointed out I was being religious. Which I agree, reading ( which I rarely do now) and praying and going to church can become routine when you lose your zeal.

She went to Rev ch 2, you know the church of Ephesus. .. they worked diligently and patiently....and Jesus himself warned that He'd remove their lampstand if they didn't turn back to their first love.


And it made me feel like..whats the point, if my best is religious?
I've tried to talk to God and chase Him ...but He rarely talks back..its a onesided relationship. ...
Yet my other members who left our church...hear Him crystal clear..

And are blessed by Him

Idk, it seems so backwards. .. I want to talk to God more than He wants to talk to me ..but He just won't. ..and Im tired of chasing someone who ignores me. : /

And, My life doesn't display His fruits...you know in Galatians...
I don't know what to do ..bc only God can bear the fruit..yet I can't hear Him...in someways I feel damned already...

Its so unfair I want to change but HE won't do it... idk Im just frustrated. .. and discouraged and want to give up.

= <
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Listen closer. I once thought I was being ignored also and then I realized God talks to me everyday, and was trying to talk to me even before I realized he was. I was mind blown to be honest and ecstatic to know I was being heard. Everything you read in the Bible is true, HE IS THERE FOR YOU. This is a test in your life, don't lose your faith, instead grow in your faith.
 
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pancakes said:
It just annoys me bc my members who left our church seem blessed financial and spiritual. ... and I can't even hear the man , and feel like im on the path to hell instead of heaven.

There's nothing different abt me, compared to other pll, i just don't uunderstand it... I want to change but He just won't do it.
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Read Job.
 
Intojoy said:
"My pastor she"
Fail
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I have women pastors. They are a blessing to me and to my local church...all being Spirit-filled and Spirit-led women of God.

What is a fail is denying one half of the spiritual workforce in the world the opportunity to do what God anoints them to do. Heaven help the person who stands between a woman and God's hand and says, "No. Not a woman!". Wouldn't wanna be ya.
 
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1tim2:12

Can someone help me understand this verse? and if someone is "spirit-led" would they be led into disobeying the word of God? I'm confused :(
 
Euphemia said:
I have women pastors. They are a blessing to me and to my local church...all being Spirit-filled and Spirit-led women of God.

What is a fail is denying one half of the spiritual workforce in the world the opportunity to do what God anoints them to do. Heaven help the person who stands between a woman and God's hand and says, "No. Not a woman!". Wouldn't wanna be ya.
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Never trust a woman....not ein a ded one
Hehe
 
Where is the Messiah said:
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1tim2:12

Can someone help me understand this verse? and if someone is "spirit-led" would they be led into disobeying the word of God? I'm confused :(
Click to expand...

Paul was speaking in admonition to a congregation that happened to need his advice concerning ill-mannered women who spoke out in meeting, not understanding what was being taught and asking questions, etc when they should have been listening quietly. Men didn't need that admonition because they had been taught in school how to learn quietly as children. Girls didn't have the same opportunities to learn the Torah.

This is Paul's admonition, and he never made it a for-all-time edict for the Church of Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
A woman must learn in silence, in keeping with her position. 12 I don’t allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.
 
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