Ok God says this . Now what is your point here ? There is more to this then just this simple verse..
Is fear a sin?
- Thread starter Mykuhl
- Start date
Ok God says this . Now what is your point here ? There is more to this then just this simple verse..
Are you serious ? your acting like a 3 year old.
Please also consider the Word of God here in Job 38:1-2, and 40:2 and verse 8 where He rebukes Job, and 42: 1-6 where Job repents. But to be fair to the Word of God....God Also says, "You have not spoken right of Me what is right, as my servant Job has." In chapter 42:7. So, with all that in mind I am not sure if Job sinned or not.
It is not that job sinned. Job stepped out side of the Blessing of God in which he walked. The devil called it a protective hedge. Job did this when he got over into worry and and fear.
This is what aloud satan to go at job. God never gave satan permission. That is where dan is all worked up about and twist.
Job........
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.
Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.
Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)
We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.
We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....
I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.
1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.
2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.
3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.
4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.
5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.
Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....
First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.
Now lets look at two verses here.
Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.
And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.
We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips. ( )
2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.
HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?
Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"
See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...
The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.
Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD......Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
This does not say Job sinned..............
Jim
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.
Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.
Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)
We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.
We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....
I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.
1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.
2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.
3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.
4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.
5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.
Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....
First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.
Now lets look at two verses here.
Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.
And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.
We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips. ( )
2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.
HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?
Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"
See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...
The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.
Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD......Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
This does not say Job sinned..............
Jim
Then God went on to say:
Have you considered my servent Job that there is none like him on the Earth, a BLAMELESS and upright man; one who fears God and shuns evil? And he still holds fast to his integrity although you incited Me against him to destroy him WITHOUT CAUSE?
Have you considered my servent Job that there is none like him on the Earth, a BLAMELESS and upright man; one who fears God and shuns evil? And he still holds fast to his integrity although you incited Me against him to destroy him WITHOUT CAUSE?
But Jim, if Job didn't sin then in why would he get out of the protective hedge how would satan be allowed to get at Job as a result? I don't understand
Ok so where does this come against what i said ? I never said job sinned. I did say God did not give satan permission to attack job. Job did that on his own. JOb did not sin in this because he never gave into what satan wanted all along and thaty weas for job to curse God.
I reposted what I wrote and you can see what is aid and did not say/
Mykuhl read the post about job i just posted. It shows what I am saying here.
When we walk in Fath Gods blessing is protecting us but when we get out in dout and FEAR we have taken our eyes off of God and stepped out from His protectection or another words we open the door for the devil to get in and steel kill and destroy. Not that God gives upon us for He even told satan spare his life...
Example..........if it be you Lord bid me to come......Come says the Lord...........so far so good and here is Peter walking on water.........oh no here comes the devil and stirs up the wind and waves and sends fear Peters way.........Peter has two choices.........Keep his heart fixed on God ( Jesus ) by FAITH...........or give into fear which ALWAYS takes your eyes off of the Lord and away from your FAITH and this is what peter chose and began to sink and had to cry out for help......Same thing with job.............same thing in our lives but people would rather believe words are just words even though both ot and nt teaches us differently.....
God Bless
Jim
Job's problem was one of lacking trust, from what I'm reading from this commentary and not fear. It goes on to say we may never know(til the rapture) as to how we can apply human reasoning to divine wisdom concerning the story of Job.
I think I'm seeing your mistake in all this. Your using fear in your paradigm.....a negative, when you should rather use trust.......a positive. Your message would then go from a message of judgement to a message of hope and love. I would also recommend stepping off your high horse and refrain from going personal. The pride you have sticks out like a sore thumb. Your pride makes me very wary of you.
what commentary
This one is MacArthers
Dan what are you talking about ? Where is this pride brother ? Do you know me ?
You say I need to focuss on trust and the fear is where I go wrong.
How do you come to this.
What have I said that was prideful ? It would be nice if you actually had something to go on other then words to tear some one down that you do not agree with.
I love you brother and I forgive you of your accusations...It is all good my friend
Blessings
Lots of mixed revews on the MacArthers.
I rely on the Holy Spirit and where God sends me to learn. That is enough for me. I learned 20 years ago that you have to be very careful depending on one commentary as your source.
Dan we do not have to agree and that is fine but to twist and bash and accuse another just because one does not agree is never ok.
Blessings
?
/
Guest
Staff Notice
I urge all participating members to find a civil tone once again.
The staff appreciate your cooperation.
I urge all participating members to find a civil tone once again.
The staff appreciate your cooperation.
Agreed and that is what I was trying to apply.
Thank YOU for for watching and guiding and protecting us from getting out in the area of fleshly responses.
Blessings
Thank YOU for for watching and guiding and protecting us from getting out in the area of fleshly responses.
Blessings
You imply that you have some higher authority than one who disagrees with you and that indicates pride. At any rate I am done and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I wish you well. God bless.
God bless have fun and enjoy. I wont hold that against you.
?
/
Guest
Good work in resolving this folks.
We like threads to remain civil and now and again we just leave a note to let you know we are watching.
The Christian thing to do is what you have done; accepting that both of you can disagree but can remain civil.
So until the next time...
We like threads to remain civil and now and again we just leave a note to let you know we are watching.
The Christian thing to do is what you have done; accepting that both of you can disagree but can remain civil.
So until the next time...