No disagreements here. I thought we were talking about Christians in general and not Pastors.The problem IMO comes from those who always ask their people for more and more giving so as to support the ministry and then they use that money to buy a 3 million dollar house or that Chevy Corvette. They are using the money to support a life style instead of supporting the ministry of the church.
Do we really think that the pastor of any church or preacher should own a house worth millions when there are starving people everywhere that need to be fed?
I am only speaking of ME. I could never ever live like that. My conscious would never allow it. IF I had the ability to buy a house worth 3 million, I would not do so. I would buy exactly what I have right now and then ride around buying food and dental work for those who were unable to do so.
In 2004 we had had a tornado come through our city. It destroyed several homes. Our church had money and in fact we had $10,000 over our budget. Our pastor and several deacons took that cash and went door (no doors just trash) to door giving those people money with no questions asked. There was never a thought of giving the pastor more than he was already getting and he would not have taken it if it was offered.
THAT is the difference IMO!
On Richness and Poverty
- Thread starter aha
- Start date
No disagreements here. I thought we were talking about Christians in general and not Pastors.
Yes, just as the Lord tells us---Abraham is our spiritual father.
I prefer it if you quote me. I am getting tired of claims.
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Why cant he feed the orphans for life ? Just because he bought a morecostly suit does not stop him and if you think about it, if he can buy the more costly suit then he probably is the one who is taking care of them and picking up the slack where others with a more modest income leave off.
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1. Thats good
2. Thats also good.
3. No. If a Christian can afford to buy a ferarri he has been abnormally blessed, financially by God. God expects that individual to use this gift for His glory. Not ours.
4. We know people by their fruits.
5. Would the Jews have walked to Israel / the promised land if it did not contain milk and honey? Christian's would / should. Jews were never taught to give expecting nothing in return.
Scripture?
Major I do not see this as 100 percent truth.
Here is why..........
You said ........Jesus said that our heart will always be wherever our treasure is. If you have such treasure on earth, it proves that your heart and affection is on earth and not in Heaven, and that you love the things of this world more than you love God. If you didn’t, you would love Jesus enough to obey Him which is exactly what Jesus said in John 14:15.[/
Now look at what you wrote brother.....
Yes Jesus said our hearts will be where out treasures is. Now lets look at the word treasures..........it could also be seen as valued or most important and cared for. Example: I treasure my kids over playing poker every friday night. They put more importance on the kids then their personal likes.
Now then Jesus did NOT say we could not have all the nice things we would enjoy.
The written word of God tells us to NOT LOVE these things for we LOVE GOD and the things of GOD.
The scripture you use to make your point is alittle out of context to make your point. It does NOT say just because we have treasures or nice things we have placed our affection on them over God and are in disobedience. It DOES say if we value these things more. Just like it is the LOVE of or for money that is the root of all evil and NOT the money or having it or to desire to have.
Priority is the big picture and answer here. The scriptures do not say that if we enjoy nice things and have nice things that we have made them our treasures over God. That is something a person must chose to do and can be as poor as poor can be and still treasure things over God. We must seek God first and His ways. This means putting God first over all things which includes family, kids and so forth.
It is all about the condition of the heart. Where YOUR HEART IS there your treasures will be also. So in all truth we find that it is not having things that is the problem BUT placing a higher value "treasure" on them over God.
Blessings my Friend
Jim
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Corinthians 5:12 does not give you the green light to go around judging others.
If one casn afford the more costly car or anything then praise God and it is these folks that give more as well for they have it to give.
Kj you seem to think that if one drives a fancy car he stole from orphans. You look to the material to make judgment on spiritual matters...Not a wise way Bro.
I know there is a huge culture difference between here and there and this plays into our thinking alot. However this does not give either of us the green light to judge the others beliefs or actions through our own culture. My culture and can not dictate how your culture should act and so forth. See what I am saying her KJ ?
Well, KingJ, just revisit your own thoughts of late, and you just may see that you have communicated here a rather generalized aversion to pastors and other Christians who have possessions which represent wealth, to you.
That does not say he is your spiriutal father.
Open a thread on judging and lets have a proper bible study on the subject. You are wrong + 1 Cor 5:12 reads rather easily.
That is a cop out. You are twisting my words.
There will always be poor. There will always be lazy people. There will always be greedy people. There will always be beggers. All until Jesus comes. Don't judge those with money and don't judge those without money. Help your neighbor as God leads. If you give money to an addict you're enabling their addiction. Give them the gospel and let God bless them when they repent. Give as the Lord leads so you don't enable the sluggard, 2 Thessalonians 3:10.
Now lets take the verse in context and see how she reads shall we KJ \
9I wrote to you in my epistle p not to 6 keep company with sexually immoral people.10Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go q out of the world.11But now I have written to you not to keep company r with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner - s not even to eat with such a person.12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore t "put away from yourselves the evil person." 7
Again brother if you feel this gives you the green light to judge others then that is your fate.
Well I know where you can all clensed and forgiven over at Johns house address 1john1:9
Thank God
Blessings
Jim
1. Obviously.
2. Leaders open themselves up to judgment by being leaders. If you don't want to be judged don't be a pastor. Then Christians open themselves up to judgment according to scripture. If you don't want to be judged according to scripture don't call yoruself a Christian.
3. So only give if a magical voice from heaven tells you?
4. When God is our Father, He can take care of us. Agreed.
As I said to Rav. When God blesses us financially, we are to honor Him with our riches. Not ourselves. We live for Him. We work as unto Him. The only reason we are on earth is to serve Him. Serving ourselves is forgiveable. We are still in the world. But not to the extent that any sane person will judge as self indulgent > selfless.
I am blessed by the Lord. It is His gift to me, just like Abraham. I don't care what others think. I have to give an account of my own actions and only to my Judge Jesus Christ - Who is also my Lawyer.
Again, the underlined reads rather easily.