Pondering Questions,Looking For Feedback!

[D3vot3d2G0d]

Thank you Brother Bob, wise words as always.

Jn.17:13-16....context
And now come I to thee` and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves
I have given them they word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world,even as I am not of the world.
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world

I will pose another question as to where do we stand in regards to the world , it's citizens, it's government, it's politics, it's values ?

1 Jn. 4:5 ....context 3-6
They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them

1 Jn.2:15..... context 13-16
15. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

I hear many " christians" taking about all the above in my question of the world about our duty to...........or our right to..........
In light of his sovereignty as supreme ruler over all, where are his followers boundaries ?

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

You said.......
"I am looking for a spiritual answer bc eventually here as we saw with the pandemic, the government did infringe on the rights of multiple religions."

That is very confusing to me so I would like you to elaborate on your comment.

Multiple churches were shut down regardless of what the churches were will to do for the safety of its ppl.
Several preachers were publicly shamed and or arrested bc they refused to bow.
Daniel and the Hebrews had this experience as well.

 

[blueskies]

Multiple churches were shut down regardless of what the churches were will to do for the safety of its ppl.

For consideration.​

What is our spiritual obligation when a lawful government gives a decree? What if we don’t agree with a decree or judgment? Is it a moral decree, does it violate Gods laws as found in scripture, and, in the instance you mention, does it interfere significantly with our relationship with God?​

These questions are unlikely to have universally acceptable answers given that we have such a politically and culturally diverse population and add that we are perhaps a uniquely spiritually divergent population… well what can be universally agreed upon? Precious little it seems.​

As previously discussed, in the U.S. the Feds have legal authority under the constitution to take extraordinary measures if it deems a "compelling" governmental interest.​

In this case the health and safety of the general population as individuals, as a body and the nation as a whole.​

NASB 1995​

Romans 13:1-5​

Be Subject to Government​

13 Every [a]person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except [b]from God, and those which exist are established by God.2 Therefore [c]whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for [d]good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.

Footnotes​

1. Romans 13:1 Or soul
2. Romans 13:1 Lit by
3. Romans 13:2 Lit he who
4. Romans 13:3 Lit good work

 

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[Major]

Multiple churches were shut down regardless of what the churches were will to do for the safety of its ppl.
Several preachers were publicly shamed and or arrested bc they refused to bow.
Daniel and the Hebrews had this experience as well.

I forgot to say that I live in Fl. where our governor did not ask any churches to close because of the pandemic.
Governor DeSantis ruled that religious services were an “essential activity.”!!!!!

So, I apologize for any confusion due to my post!

Our church did social distance, and used gloves and masks at the height of the pandemic but we did not close.

 

[Major]

If I may,

If someone did not take me to the greek, Take me to the hebrew. Take me into some historical perspective. I will still be stuck in alot of bad doctrines.

I think people get turned off maybe because the do not like to be told they may be wrong. and may be closed to that idea?

I agree, Iron Sharpens Iron. God chose to write the word in those two languages for a reason. I for one, thank him for that. True biblical hermeneutics takes everything into account.

Absolutly correct! We like what we know even if what we know is wrong.

The Bible says in Proverbs 10:9, ......
“Whoever walks in integrity walks securely, but whoever takes crooked paths will be found out”.

You will be found out! So when making decisions, you need the integrity test.

Somethingthta I think a whole lot of Christians do not consider is Romans 14:14 where Paul says,
“If someone believes it is wrong, then he shouldn’t do it because for him it is wrong”.

This verse simply says that when in doubt, don’t. It’s a violation of the integrity test. Whatever is not from faith in our lives is sin.

 

[Lanolin]

This is where teachers need to say, well this is how you know something is fact...and when something is fiction.

The thing with laws or most rules is they are time-bound. They only stand until someone changes them, and then they are amended, or repealed, and then everyone is meant to follow the NEW rules.

This is actually hard for people to remember and keep up with a lot of the time. This is why people hire lawyers, because they can't understand the rules. In law libraries, the documents and books go on for MILES. Laws are constantly being updated, fetched, examined, and finding loopholes, as well as being interpreted. Then you have politicians, making POLICIES, which is basically a bunch of rules that everyone has to follow, abide by and know.

However not everyone can do this if they are not simple. And it sometimes seems some rules are not fair, or different for some people and not applying to others. Plus if you are rich, it seems you can be above the law/rules and buy your way out of having to follow them.

Some laws and rules are unwritten, it's assumed everyone knows them. But if never gets taught in childhood, and rote memorised, nobody will know them. So why blame people when they aren't following any rules cos they never heard of them?

 

[Lanolin]

Why did God make rules? Or put in boundaries?
Well the first rule or instruction God made was to Adam, in which he said you can eat any of the fruits of the trees in the garden, except that one, because if you eat that one you will die.

Why did He say that? Well obviously, God wanted to protect Adam. He was safety conscious. He wasn't making those restrictions because He didn't like Adam or wanted to curb his freedom. He wanted Adam to live.

Maybe Adam had no understanding what dying meant.

This is why, say I make a rule 'no running in the library'
I ask the children why
and most of the time they understand it's so they don't crash and get hurt, and the teacher says she is not a nurse so if anyone gets hurt we won't know how to fix you.

 

[bobinfaith]

The thing with laws or most rules is they are time-bound. They only stand until someone changes them, and then they are amended, or repealed, and then everyone is meant to follow the NEW rules. This is why people hire lawyers, because they can't understand the rules. In law libraries, the documents and books go on for MILES. Laws are constantly being updated, fetched, examined, and finding loopholes, as well as being interpreted. Then you have politicians, making POLICIES, which is basically a bunch of rules that everyone has to follow, abide by and know.

Hello Lanolin;

I'm not an expert when it comes to libraries, so I have a side note question. In a law library for example, when there are many, many books with updates and revisions, do the outdated books get taken off the shelves and archived? Or do they remain on the shelves for others to do research?

 

[Lanolin]

Hello Lanolin;

I'm not an expert when it comes to libraries, so I have a side note question. In a law library for example, when there are many, many books with updates and revisions, do the outdated books get taken off the shelves and archived? Or do they remain on the shelves for others to do research?

Ok so what happens is they get amended...the new amendments get added, and the old ones get superseded.
the superseded ones get withdrawn and archived or put into storage so that are record is kept of when the laws changed. Yes people can still look back and use them for research. But the most current ones will be available to borrow and in circulation.
Most laws and statutes have the year of when they were put into action, say for example the Employment Act of 1990...and when a new one comes along, its just gets updated to the Employment Act of 2020 (or whichever year) or if its a completely new and different law, its gets its own name.

I haven't worked in a law library, but I do know they keep the old law books, some in very fancy leather bindings, which the librarians need to look after, polish and dust. Nowadays a lot of things like journals are kept electronically in vast databases, like Lexis Nexis. But there is still a place for hard copy print books.

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

Question
Can a person receive salvation if they deny the deity of Jesus ?

 

[crossnote]

Question
Can a person receive salvation if they deny the deity of Jesus ?

Wouldn't they be receiving 'another' Jesus?

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

Wouldn't they be receiving 'another' Jesus?

I do not know. That is what I'm asking. Since there is no other way of redemption except through Jesus, can any of the grace or faith be believed upon?

Why would anyone think just a man could save them and or give them a way to have a relationship with God ?

 

[bobinfaith]

Question
Can a person receive salvation if they deny the deity of Jesus ?

Wouldn't they be receiving 'another' Jesus?

I do not know. That is what I'm asking. Since there is no other way of redemption except through Jesus, can any of the grace or faith be believed upon? Why would anyone think just a man could save them and or give them a way to have a relationship with God ?

Hello D3v and crossnote;

God bless you both for asking such a question that can be so profound in everyone's life by receiving the deity of Jesus.

This may seem like a simple thing to ask to the arrogant (those who deny Jesus or receive another deity,) but we all need to take these areas very serious, starting with;

Love One Another. When Jesus saw the crowds, He immediately loved them as He loves us. When someone can discern I love them, it's a good chance they will be receiving of what I want to share with them. Matthew 5:44

Share the Gospel. He gave His sermon on the mount to them and kept it simple because the crowd had never heard anyone teach this way with authority. At the same time His 12 Disciples were getting built up. Matthew 5:1

God's Word Reveals Who is Who. When we are taught in our Christian Walk includes who Christ is, the Truth, the Way and the Life. John 14:6

Jesus Lovingly Encourages Us to Know Him. When we teach others to come and believe in Him, God does His part and reveals to us that we will never go spiritually hungry and be spiritually quenched in our thirst. John 6:35

After all these revealings from the Almighty God, when we still choose to deny the deity of Jesus, we may have heard of this Jesus, but we chose not to believe in Jesus, therefore, our salvation would not have been established.

This is why God continually sends his "qualified" unlimited servants to share the gospel so to those who believe or receive, to sustain their salvation.

I hope what I shared helps.

God bless you, brother and sister.

 

[crossnote]

I do not know. That is what I'm asking. Since there is no other way of redemption except through Jesus, can any of the grace or faith be believed upon?

Why would anyone think just a man could save them and or give them a way to have a relationship with God ?

When I asked "Wouldn't they be receiving 'another' Jesus?", it was a rhetorical question meaning "Of course they would", because no man can die for the sins of the world or stand in as mediator receiving prayer requests from millions simultaneously, or receive praise and worship when only God has that right...It took one who is fully God/fully man.

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

On a different site I am seeing so very many that claim to be followers of God, the Father, then deny the fact that Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. They instead say he is the Son that God created.

They deny he is God for God is only one. They skirt in Genesis that God said let US make man in OUR image.

Will God overlook this ignorance, from lack of sound teaching or not seeking the TRUTH for themselves ?

 

[bobinfaith]

When I asked "Wouldn't they be receiving 'another' Jesus?", it was a rhetorical question meaning "Of course they would", because no man can die for the sins of the world or stand in as mediator receiving prayer requests from millions simultaneously, or receive praise and worship when only God has that right...It took one who is fully God/fully man.

On a different site I am seeing so very many that claim to be followers of God, the Father, then deny the fact that Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. They instead say he is the Son that God created. They deny he is God for God is only one. They skirt in Genesis that God said let US make man in OUR image. Will God overlook this ignorance, from lack of sound teaching or not seeking the TRUTH for themselves ?

Hello crossnote;

This is why I enjoy fellowship with you. You have a way of making things clear and posting clarity from the get go so we don't drag on with misunderstandings, quibbling and dividing.

Our disagreements are usually few, especially when I'm right and you're wrong. lol!

Just joking. God bless you, brother.

Hello my dear sister in Christ, D3v;

Thank you, earlier, for sharing with me. I understand and am blessed to walk with you for Christ.

I choose only to serve and fellowship at one site where I can receive good fellowship, teaching from some awesome men and women of God and am blessed with an anointed Moderator's staff.

Here at CFS if I were to claim to be followers and doers of God, yet deny His only Begotten Son, there are servants here who would refute me and teach me the Truth of John 6:35. Then verse 36 also reveals the Truth; there are those who claim they see Him but still do not believe.

There is potential to teach all sheep. So if others feel led to fellowship at more than one site, God bless them for that.

 

[crossnote]

They deny he is God for God is only one. They skirt in Genesis that God said let US make man in OUR image.

They also skirt this unbreakable cord...

John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[crossnote]

Our disagreements are usually few, especially when I'm right and you're wrong. lol!

When is that Pastor Bob?...

 

[Lanolin]

Not sure what site this is, but if they saying another gospel I wouldn't go there. It's not God will overlook their mistake or ignorance, it's just if they've made up their minds to believe something else, God will let them go their own way. They may come to find what they believed is a lie but it's often experience that will teach them that it's wrong - that's a hard lesson, but it's like an alcoholic who is intoxicated, you cannot reason with them in that state. They have to hit rockbottom before they realise they are in denial.

You can warn others or you can shine a light, but someone needs to be open to the light you shine.