sound doctrine

Euphemia said:
What constitutes worship are a lot of things added to that, such as lending your body wholeheartedly to literal worship in music and song and dance. That is what God's people do when they come together.
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I have come to understand this: singing songs to God is figurative worship, and living your life for Him is literal worship. You can worship God fully and completely, and never sing a single song. I can sing songs to Him and truly mean them, but if my actions don't back up my words, I have not yet begun to worship.

James 1:27
Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Mat 9:13
Then he added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.'
 
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Euphemia said:
such as lending your body wholeheartedly to literal worship in music and song and dance. That is what God's people do when they come together.
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Sounds and looks like your in a Happy Clappy church. Might be fun, but as to true worship I doubt it...
 
This thread is tittled "sound doctrine" I wonder if Lanolin had the current content in mind to begin with?:)
OK, so I think there are a few good points all round.
BTW Waggles, I thought I had an exclusive on the term 'happy clappy'...Ohh well I should have copyrighted it:(
But it has me wondering....
Jesus, when He spoke to large crowds (5000+) in an open air setting used what wattage amplifiers?
Maybe they were all fitted out with blue-tooth headphones?
Wesley when he composed and had played his hymns used how many different electronically boosted instruments?
I am aware that at one time, the local Church received complaints from some neighbouring residents about the loudness of their noise.
I know a woman on the other side of Sydney who will not go to certain churches in her area because she simply can not tolerate loud noise no matter what or why.
Personally and for what little it is worth,. I think that the world system of values are infiltrating Christian music.
Values where you don't listen to music, you must just feel the vibrations.
I'm reasonably sure that this has a detrimental effect on our health both physical and mental.
 
Waggles said:
Yes, the commendation of men. BUT has Jesus himself told you lot as to how HE regards your church and your worship?
If you are NOT doing 1Corinthians 14: 26-23 then how acceptable are your worship practices? Visiting pastors may love them, but does Jesus?
Without operating the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit you will never hear Jesus' approval or disapproval concerning your church.
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NO. The blessing of the Lord. He is well pleased!
 
Roads said:
I have come to understand this: singing songs to God is figurative worship, and living your life for Him is literal worship. You can worship God fully and completely, and never sing a single song. I can sing songs to Him and truly mean them, but if my actions don't back up my words, I have not yet begun to worship.

James 1:27
Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Mat 9:13
Then he added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.'
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Not many people who have been filled with the Holy Spirit can keep from uttering songs of praise to their amazing Lord.
 
Waggles said:
Sounds and looks like your in a Happy Clappy church. Might be fun, but as to true worship I doubt it...
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NO. Don't be rude, now, out of your personal biases! We are a Spirit-filled and Spirit-led church. An amazing group of people who serve God with all they've got, in obedience to the command to go and preach the gospel to every creature, and to make disciples.
 
calvin said:
the local Church received complaints from some neighbouring residents about the loudness of their noise.
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It is not so much the issue of loud noise or clamour; but rather that @Euphemia equates praise and worship music with dancing as
true worship in a Spirit led church. All things must be brought back to Scripture. Music is definitely NOT the way of worship in a church service.
Music, the singing of popular gospel songs, psalms and hymns should be no more than a complement to the real business
of a church service: to be edified through a good meaty sermon on the Word (and on Sundays) taking holy communion.
Operating the voice gifts through the Holy Spirit, and having a prayer line for people to come out to for whatever needs
they may have. Music is only a complimentary aspect where the congregation themselves join in and sing unto the Lord.
As for dancing, where do the Epistles promote dancing???
 
Waggles said:
It is not so much the issue of loud noise or clamour; but rather that @Euphemia equates praise and worship music with dancing as
true worship in a Spirit led church. All things must be brought back to Scripture. Music is definitely NOT the way of worship in a church service.
Music, the singing of popular gospel songs, psalms and hymns should be no more than a complement to the real business
of a church service: to be edified through a good meaty sermon on the Word (and on Sundays) taking holy communion.
Operating the voice gifts through the Holy Spirit, and having a prayer line for people to come out to for whatever needs
they may have. Music is only a complimentary aspect where the congregation themselves join in and sing unto the Lord.
As for dancing, where do the Epistles promote dancing???
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Read the Psalms much? We are commanded to sing, shout, dance, spin, jump before the Lord, and guess what? He does it too.
 
calvin said:
other side of Sydney
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Is that Sydney, Australia?
I am lucky enough to live in the most beautiful German heritage Barossa Valley, here in South Australia.
The Lord took away from me on the day I was born again of the Holy Spirit - cigarette and marijuana smoking, along with
drinking alcohol. So no alcohol is a good part of my testimony as to how the Lord has set me free from bondage to the flesh.
One doesn't realize just how much worldly (and yes worldly christians) booze on and still want more to drink - until one is
outside of the booze culture that surrounds me. And what's even more bizarre is that I live in the middle of Australia's
premier wine making region. ;)
 
Euphemia said:
Not many people who have been filled with the Holy Spirit can keep from uttering songs of praise to their amazing Lord.
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There is nothing wrong at all with singing songs to God, friend, I certainly won't condemn you for it. If you knew my path, you'd understand more about what I mean. I have been a "worship leader" for most of my life, and I am at a point in my own life where I feel like I'm being challenged to make sure the words I'm speaking are backed up by the way I live my life, so I don't end up speaking/singing empty and meaningless words to God.

If I sing a song of praise to God, I must ask myself, are these words made true by the proof of my actions, are are they proven empty because of my lack of action? My words are worthless without the evidence of my actions in how I live my life. So what is the kind of worship God finds acceptable, then, my words, or my actions?

1 Cor 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Perhaps it is true that "not many" filled with the Spirit can keep from singing to God. I don't know whether or not this is true. But no one filled with the Spirit can keep from worshiping God by loving others, "For Christ’s love compels us" 2 Cor 5:14.

Mat 25:31-46
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
 
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Euphemia said:
Read the Psalms much?
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Old Testament, mate. Hope you don't eat pork or shellfish.
What do the New Testament scriptures write concerning how churches are to conduct themselves?
What do the Epistles, which are directions and instructions for the Spirit-filled (and led) churches, say?
If I want to do things the Old Testament way, I might as well go to my local synagogue.
Is your church, which you claim is into true worship, conducting itself in full accordance with the
New Testament scriptures? And if not, why not?
 
Roads said:
There is nothing wrong at all with singing songs to God, friend, I certainly won't condemn you for it. If you knew my path, you'd understand more about what I mean. I have been a "worship leader" for most of my life, and I am at a point in my own life where I feel like I'm being challenged to make sure the words I'm speaking are backed up by the way I live my life, so I don't speak empty and meaningless words to God.

If I sing a song of praise to God, I must ask myself, are these words made true by the proof of my actions, are are they proven empty because of my lack of action? My words are worthless without the evidence of my actions in how I live my life. So what is the kind of worship God finds acceptable, then, my words, or my actions?

1 Cor 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
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As a worship leader, you would be in the same boat as a pastor, so yes, one's life is especially challenged continually concerning righteousness. This is why a church worth its salt will make sure that all who lead are spiritually bearing fruit and thus able to lead. This is no volunteer position, but is a God-called one.
 
Waggles said:
Old Testament, mate. Hope you don't eat pork or shellfish.
What do the New Testament scriptures write concerning how churches are to conduct themselves?
What do the Epistles, which are directions and instructions for the Spirit-filled (and led) churches, say?
If I want to do things the Old Testament way, I might as well go to my local synagogue.
Is your church, which you claim is into true worship, conducting itself in full accordance with the
New Testament scriptures? And if not, why not?
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I am shocked at your response,Waggles.

David knew God intimately and knew exactly how to worship Him and how to please Him in worship. We can do no less. You cannot learn by he seat of your pants, but only by God's word, and Psalms is a book that will teach those who are sensitive to the Spirit of God in worship what pleases the Father.

My particular church is an excellent entire Bible church! Don't just sit there at your keyboard coming to all sorts of false conclusions, and making false judgments that you will have to repent of later, now.
 
Euphemia said:
As a worship leader, you would be in the same boat as a pastor, so yes, one's life is especially challenged continually concerning righteousness. This is why a church worth its salt will make sure that all who lead are spiritually bearing fruit and thus able to lead. This is no volunteer position, but is a God-called one.
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When I read the scriptures about the kind of worship that God finds acceptable (deeds, not words), I assume they all for all Christians, not only leadership.

But I won't pass judgment on another believer, each of us are ultimately accountable to God.
 
Roads said:
When I read the scriptures about the kind of worship that God finds acceptable (deeds, not words), I assume they all for all Christians, not only leadership.

But I won't pass judgment on another believer, each of us are ultimately accountable to God.
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Hon, I was speaking to YOU as a worship leader.

OK?
 
Euphemia said:
Hon, I was speaking to YOU as a worship leader.
OK?
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!?

As a worship leader, all I can offer to you is what I have gained: the kind of worship God wants from us and the kind of worship He finds pleasing and acceptable is our deeds. Not our words, not our dance. Without the former, the latter is empty.
 
Roads said:
!?

As a worship leader, all I can offer to you is what I have gained: the kind of worship God wants from us and the kind of worship He finds pleasing and acceptable is our deeds. Not our words, not our dance. Without the former, the latter is empty.
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LOL! I agree...what?
 
Waggles said:
Is that Sydney, Australia?
I am lucky enough to live in the most beautiful German heritage Barossa Valley, here in South Australia.
The Lord took away from me on the day I was born again of the Holy Spirit - cigarette and marijuana smoking, along with
drinking alcohol. So no alcohol is a good part of my testimony as to how the Lord has set me free from bondage to the flesh.
One doesn't realize just how much worldly (and yes worldly christians) booze on and still want more to drink - until one is
outside of the booze culture that surrounds me. And what's even more bizarre is that I live in the middle of Australia's
premier wine making region. ;)
Click to expand...
Darn and I was going to ask you send me carton of lite white:cry:.
Yes I'm up here in (near) Sydney Australia, not down under in the other places cashing in on the name.
Not from the epistles but I thought the following might have something to say about how different people react to dancing.
2Sa 6:14. And David danced before the LORD with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.
2Sa 6:15. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting and with the sound of the horn.
2Sa 6:16. As the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD, and she despised him in her heart.
Michal was a bit of a killjoy wasn't she?
But I do think culture has a lot to do with it. We should not try to cavort as David did, not because he was wrong, but because we live in different times.
 
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