sound doctrine

[Lanolin]

I think..God is not deaf so why would you need to raise your voice if its naturally quiet.
I sometimes get 'corrected' to speak up and pray really loudly so that others can hear, cos many ppl especially elderly are deaf. But then one girl said I had to pray louder so that she could agree with my prayer...yet she spoke with such an accent, that I could hardly understand what she was praying...so. I dont know. I kinda felt hurt a little cos...God can hear me even if other people cant.

With singing its the loud noisy ppl that want everyone to be noisy but I think it depends on the kind of worship music being played. Played being the operative word, as nobody really sings, just the people with the microphones. Some of the modern stuff does nothing cos its so lite that I dont even feel its a hymn just someone singing how much they want to be with God over and over like something youd hear on worldly radio.

Thats why I dont go to certain churches cos they all sing the same songs over and over that dont mean anything, its just a venue for their praise band, sound system and drum kit. Then they get feedback from the mic. I think they be totally lost if they had to worship outside.

Anyway. That has to do with doctrine I guess. Why anyone would judge someone just cos they didnt join in singing a song is beyond me. A lot of songs sung in church these days arent worthy, they may be bestsellers on the ccm circuit, but they dont touch Gods heart because they not really about him but the artist who wrote the song. Many arent written for group singing either.

 

[Lanolin]

I noticed a big difference in a church I attended at first, when certain couple where on the worship team, the way they kind of took over the whole music side and made it all about their performance. When they werent there on Sundays it was totally different cos everyone was participating, not the people who tried to be stars and force people to keep up with them. I dont know what happened to this couple, they left the church...?
This from my experience. They kind of acted like MCs instead of just letting the songs speak for themselves. And they really didnt like hymns for some reason.

 

[Waggles]

Praise and worship music - look at Hillsong - it has for some become the gospel and the means of experiencing the "joy" of the Lord.
Yet in the scriptures joy is a segment of the fruit of the Spirit - not of music...

 

[calvin]

I think..God is not deaf so why would you need to raise your voice if its naturally quiet.I sometimes get 'corrected' to speak up and pray really loudly so that others can hear, cos many ppl especially elderly are deaf. But then one girl said I had to pray louder so that she could agree with my prayer...yet she spoke with such an accent, that I could hardly understand what she was praying...so. I dont know. I kinda felt hurt a little cos...God can hear me even if other people cant.

I have been to a few prayer meetings where two women in particular were too softly spoken. Well good luck to them if they can speak and hear at very low levels, but........there is a problem for anyone whose hearing is down. It is not so much that others need to hear their prayers as though they were the ones being prayed to, as it is that they need it to heard that they are actually praying. There is always the annoying and embarrassing risk of praying /speaking over someone we do not hear praying.
I simply can not hear these women praying so having to worry about not over talking them is a distraction I don't want or need.
So I think their are two sides to it. I need to hear that you are praying so that I don't overtalk you, and Yes, I could be personally blessed by hearing you pray.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Praise and worship music - look at Hillsong - it has for some become the gospel and the means of experiencing the "joy" of the Lord.
Yet in the scriptures joy is a segment of the fruit of the Spirit - not of music...

Joy of the Lord is our styrength...Why is this........Because there is so much of Him in us that it bubbles out or up from our hearts into our soul. What is soul ? mind will and emotions.
Why is the joy of the Lord our strength? Because when we have Joy of the Lord we can not be moved or shaken by situations or circumstances.

Now sometimes this joy comes out in laughter, singing as well as Trust and Faith.
It's what gets us through some tuff times and what enables us to be content in all situations brother... It's having more Jesus in you then anything else and that is ALWAYS A GOOD THING.

 

[Waggles]

What is soul ? mind will and emotions.

Actually no, the soul is not this. Human beings like the rest of creation have four (4) components -
1. Body 2. Heart (emotions) 3. Mind (self will, desires, thoughts, imagination, etc. etc.) 4. spirit (soul)
When one is born again by the indwelling Holy Spirit then our soul (our spirit) is connected with the power and wisdom and part knowledge
of the Kingdom of God. We become new creations in Jesus, no longer just serving our fleshly desires.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans 8:16

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man,
but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things
that are freely given to us of God. 1Corinthians 2: 11-12

 

[Lanolin]

That is the reason why I dont really like prayer groups with heaps of people, cos it takes ages for everyone having a turn at praying. I think prayer groups are best with just two or three people, so can be close and hear...or in your prayer closet. Also the Holy spirit can pray for us and when praying in tongues, dont have to be loud.

Another thing is prayer is also listening to God. If we are being still and in his presence and listening, that also counts as prayer.

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm I dont really think that way that prayer should be embarassing cos you speaking on top of each other but it will become unweildy if theres more than three people and you never know whose turn it is to pray. Also sometimes your prayer has already been said by someone else so its fine to just say amen when its finished. God can hear, so..if they in the right spirit just say amen you dont have to know every little detail I suppose. I think its more embrassing when people pray loudly so that everyone can hear how godly they are being like the Pharisees did.

I have heard some prayers that can be quite manipulative like twisting Gods arm to do what the prayee wants. So I dont say amen to those prayers, or any that arent in Jesus name. Theres many in church that pray such long winded prayers that by the end you exhausted from listening and I found ppl fallen asleep and nobody says amen. Lots of prayers in church esp preachers like to make a big show of prayer, which Jesus did not like. He always went in private up to the mountain to pray. Not in public in front of everyone. He would only do that if he was blessing someone.

 

[Lanolin]

I do make the effort to speak up for elderly folk though..but its a strain for me cos it feels like Im yelling.
It has been a huge problem because I guess im kinda naturally introverted and dont really fit in with extrovert culture, where everyone wants to be loud and seen and be first.

 

[Euphemia]

I think..God is not deaf so why would you need to raise your voice if its naturally quiet.
I sometimes get 'corrected' to speak up and pray really loudly so that others can hear, cos many ppl especially elderly are deaf. But then one girl said I had to pray louder so that she could agree with my prayer...yet she spoke with such an accent, that I could hardly understand what she was praying...so. I dont know. I kinda felt hurt a little cos...God can hear me even if other people cant.

With singing its the loud noisy ppl that want everyone to be noisy but I think it depends on the kind of worship music being played. Played being the operative word, as nobody really sings, just the people with the microphones. Some of the modern stuff does nothing cos its so lite that I dont even feel its a hymn just someone singing how much they want to be with God over and over like something youd hear on worldly radio.

Thats why I dont go to certain churches cos they all sing the same songs over and over that dont mean anything, its just a venue for their praise band, sound system and drum kit. Then they get feedback from the mic. I think they be totally lost if they had to worship outside.

Anyway. That has to do with doctrine I guess. Why anyone would judge someone just cos they didnt join in singing a song is beyond me. A lot of songs sung in church these days arent worthy, they may be bestsellers on the ccm circuit, but they dont touch Gods heart because they not really about him but the artist who wrote the song. Many arent written for group singing either.

All I can see in this is judgmental bias. I have never seen a piece of worship music in church that is all about the writer. There is nowhere in scripture that admonishes us in how to worship in song EXCEPT with shouts of enthusiasm for God, and dancing before Him. This isn't doctrinal---it's biblical.

What touches God's heart is the heart of worship, whether in songs of great volume that touch the heart of God or in restraint and in prayerful sound...it is all good, and ALL acceptable.

 

[Major]

Ya know that is a great idea! I have never thought of doing that. Blessings brother

Ya know, I have had the honor of leading many elderly to Christ that were infirmed in nursing homes and they wanted to be baptized. Being a Baptist that was a blessing to me however most of them had such physical problems I was scared to immerse them in water. So we did a simple "sprinkling" there in their rooms and you should see how it blessed the. Now this is a secret just between you and me and I do not want any of my Methodist or Presbyterian friends to find out that I sprinkled someone. I would never here the end of it!

 

[Major]

I agree with you to a certain point. Sometimes praying for that person, asking God to intervene is a better way to handle things. If a person is dealing with things that only is known to God, then allowing the Holy Spirit to encourage and us praying for the burden removing, yolk breaking anointing to fall or surround that person is better than our correction.

If a person is dealing with a spirit of condemnation, then us correcting that person can have a reverse affect. And i know that no one would want to be a part of turning a person away, because we feel as if it is our job to correct. Walking in Love is always the best way.

You are correct. Just this past Sunday I learned of a church member (23 yrs old), single and in college was pregnant. When she saw me I could see the deep hurt in here eyes and she was standing there about to explode in tears. I however did not rebuke her or correct her in anyway. I just put my arms around her and said......."Nothing has changed. I still love you just as does God".

During the invitation, she was the 1st person to come and knell at the alter and get right with God. The Holy Spirit did a much better job in this case than I could ever do.

 

[Major]

All I can see in this is judgmental bias. I have never seen a piece of worship music in church that is all about the writer. There is nowhere in scripture that admonishes us in how to worship in song EXCEPT with shouts of enthusiasm for God, and dancing before Him. This isn't doctrinal---it's biblical.

What touches God's heart is the heart of worship, whether in songs of great volume that touch the heart of God or in restraint and in prayerful sound...it is all good, and ALL acceptable.

Euphemia, I want to agree with you because I know where your heart is, however I have been at this a long time and seen way too much I am afraid. Without a doubt we are authorized to sing. The apostle Paul commands us to “speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” is seen in Ephesians 5:19-20. Singing to the Lord and to one another conveys truth set to music as a form of teaching and singing with both the spirit and the mind in order to produce understanding on the part of those involved.

I would also say that decorum should be applied at all times in the church of God. About 10 years ago my wife and I were invited to a brothers church because a singing group we knew was doing a concert there. About half way through the concert, during a song that had a lively beat to it, 7 young ladies started to dance in the isle as the beat became more and more rythmatic and very shortly they became "slain in the spirit" and fell in the floor.

Their dresses were all up over their heads and every man in the building was straining to get a good look at these women as they lay in the floor. I really do not believe that God approved of that kind of worship.

1 Corth. 14:40.......
"But everything must be done decently and in order".

 

[Major]

I do make the effort to speak up for elderly folk though..but its a strain for me cos it feels like Im yelling.
It has been a huge problem because I guess im kinda naturally introverted and dont really fit in with extrovert culture, where everyone wants to be loud and seen and be first.

You are very correct. Try getting close to them so that they can see your mouth moving. When they know you are talking it helps in their hearing.

 

[Euphemia]

Euphemia, I want to agree with you because I know where your heart is, however I have been at this a long time and seen way too much I am afraid. Without a doubt we are authorized to sing. The apostle Paul commands us to “speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” is seen in Ephesians 5:19-20. Singing to the Lord and to one another conveys truth set to music as a form of teaching and singing with both the spirit and the mind in order to produce understanding on the part of those involved.

I would also say that decorum should be applied at all times in the church of God. About 10 years ago my wife and I were invited to a brothers church because a singing group we knew was doing a concert there. About half way through the concert, during a song that had a lively beat to it, 7 young ladies started to dance in the isle as the beat became more and more rythmatic and very shortly they became "slain in the spirit" and fell in the floor.

Their dresses were all up over their heads and every man in the building was straining to get a good look at these women as they lay in the floor. I really do not believe that God approved of that kind of worship.

1 Corth. 14:40.......
"But everything must be done decently and in order".

I agree. However, if the Body of Christ is worshiping up on their feet, the one that consistently decides to sit quietly is out of order. It is a decision, after all.

 

[Major]

The spirit of division has come to bring the power of the united body of Christ to no effect. Thus turning many people away from the gospel, because all they see is fighting and not loving one another as Jesus has commanded us.

You are correct my sister. I wish it wasn't the case but it is what it is.

 

[Major]

I agree. However, if the Body of Christ is worshiping up on their feet the one that consistently decides to sit quietly is out of order. It is a decision, after all.

God love ya sister but that can not be correct. Many people in churches all over the land can not stand all the time simply because of health issues. My mother had an illness that took her life and the last 6 months she could not walk or stand but insisted on being in her church. My wife right now has arthritis so bad she can not walk more than from the car to the church door. She can not stand at all. We also have a 94 year old deacon who sits in wheel chair and can not walk. He can not stand but he is there every Sunday sitting in his wheel chair. They are not out of order!!!!

I understand your thinking but encourage you to pray about it some more and see if God will bless your understanding on this matter.

 

[Euphemia]

God love ya sister but that can not be correct. Many people in churches all over the land can not stand all the time simply because of health issues. My mother had an illness that took her life and the last 6 months she could not walk or stand but insisted on being in her church. My wife right now has arthritis so bad she can not walk more than from the car to the church door. She can not stand at all. We also have a 94 year old deacon who sits in wheel chair and can not walk. He can not stand but he is there every Sunday sitting in his wheel chair. They are not out of order!!!!

I understand your thinking but encourage you to pray about it some more and see if God will bless your understanding on this matter.

I have a knee problem, and I stand to worship, but when it gets painful, I sit, continuing in worship, and then stand again. We also have wheelchair members.

I am talking about a willful refusal and neglect, and not a health issue that would be totally understandable.

 

[calvin]

I am talking about a willful refusal and neglect, and not a health issue that would be totally understandable.

Yeah I got a few of those too....health issues I mean
Actually my wife is unable to stand so I sit with her rather than stand apart from her.

 

[calvin]

I think its more embrassing when people pray loudly so that everyone can hear how godly they are being like the Pharisees did.

Or not