you can think it is redundant all you want grace the blood of Jesus and faith are all in the plan of salvation it was Grace he took our place for the punishment for our sins 2 cor 5:21 HE became sin ( a sin offering } who knew no sin that we might become the righteousness of God honestly i almost feel as if i am dealing with reformed theology. i sue to belong to carm forum and seen this type reply.
The Reason the Church is Floundering....
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easy there bro i never said the word combined salvation . can a person take the Blood out of salvation and still be saved ? NO can we take Grace out and still be saved ? NO can we take faith out and still be saved ? NO so much like the trinity father son Holy ghost take one of the three out .there is no trinity . i am doing catch up as i just got home from work . plz note i have not discounted faith for with out it is impossible to please God. .i will address more later . i can respect your belief and i hope you can respect mine. . i do ask not say my answers are redundant
not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous.
"many of the old skills had become redundant" ·
[more]
synonyms:
unnecessary · not required · inessential · unessential · needless · unneeded · uncalled for · dispensable · disposable · expendable · unwanted · useless · surplus·
True, but could you answer this question in the first part of my post that you quoted? It will be the third time I asked...
Just out of curiosity, how much ‘doing’ must we ‘do‘ before we know we are justified?
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Romans 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
The idea is that man has no part in his salvation apart from faith. You can add all the things that God provided in Christ Jesus e.g. blood, grace etc. but it doesn't change the dictum 'faith alone'.
a doer of the word is what the Bible says and is something at something at some point or time we will fail at
the farther this goes the more my post are twisted. see I never said we was justified by what we do . other than respond the the Holy spirit drawing us in
lol by chance are you reformed ? /Calvinist because Nothing in scripture says we are saved by faith alone..by Grace are we saved . show me scripture that says we are saved by faith alone .them exact words. we are given the chance to respond to the call. the night i got saved i heard God say its NOW or never i chose the now . it was time to stop fighting . but if your reformed and i hold to free will were not going to agree . but that does not mean it makes us enemies .
in the carm forum i was called free willer false teacher. straw man theology etc.. yes trust me i fired right back..
plz understand i enjoy discussions with you all .. how be it were not going to agree on every thing .i have a brother been in the ministry 40 years deeply respect him. but some thing we dont agree on
No, I’m not Reformed. I don’t hold to Covenantal theology. But I do hold that God is 100% Sovereign in such a way that He keeps our choices 100% accountable and free.
I gave you two verses that said ‘apart from works’. I don’t count faith as a work but rather a receiving of a gift. A gift freely offered freely received and fully sufficient for our salvation.
I won’t pursue this any further, it was you who first challenged my statement, I was just trying to clarify this most important issue which I believe is a major reason the Church is floundering.
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ok very well yes i challenged by faith only not sure as to why the sudden turn off . i have never said nor believed that works saves us no more than faith alone.
for some reason when i use scripture of saved by grace through faith . it gets shut down i can only go by what scripture says . the only reason i asked if you was reformed . as some of your post replies. i had seen in carm . i am not interested in the beating of the chest my doctrine is more superior. i have come to where i am by reading .. { I was just trying to clarify this most important issue which I believe is a major reason the Church is floundering.} then by all mean stay with it. i see many major issues with the Church. parts of it watered down teaching. some time back a new Church popped up . started having bible study at a restaurant that sold beer. they called beer and a Bible study . next we can smoke weed and have a bible study
I don't see why you buck up against 'faith alone' as it mounts to the same thing. I'm sure you hold to the Trinity even though it isn't explicitly stated in Scripture.
Probably a bunch of Lutherans exercising their libertine muscles, insensitive to the weaker brethren. (Romans 14). I've seen those types before.
no to be honest not real sure i think they held to baptist name. i really dont know.. yes i hold to the trinity Latin: trinus "threefold in which we do find father son Holy ghost . some denoms call it 3 gods
because i go by as they say solo scripture and saved by faith alone is not in scripture how can we leave grace out by saying faith alone.. yes we believe but its still GRACE . Christ paid the price with out the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin . thus my reason standing by grace through faith. if a person has no faith the Grace of God has no effect for salvation . which amounts to head salvation .the i think so crowd a preacher man once said if you can get saved and not know it. you can lose it and not know it.
if you wish to end this on the merits of me not getting on board so be it. but i had rather discuss it share our agrees as well as disagrees . a sign in the fellowship hall where we use to attend read.. if every one was just like me. what kind of Church would this be . i have many Pentecostal friends . our forklift driver at work is Pentecostal. i give him flack and he gives it right back. yes he thinks Pentecostals has more Jesus than Baptist.
i had to tell him not to flatter himself so much . because Pentecostals will be the first to rise on resurrections day . his ol chest pushed out big grin on his face. till i told him the dead in Christ go first
he drove off shaking his head. its all Good . i want to be right and i do try to be right. but the only real right i have to be is right with God amen
I have no desire to pursue this any further with you. Thanks for the conversation.because i go by as they say solo scripture and saved by faith alone is not in scripture how can we leave grace out by saying faith alone.. yes we believe but its still GRACE . Christ paid the price with out the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin . thus my reason standing by grace through faith. if a person has no faith the Grace of God has no effect for salvation . which amounts to head salvation .the i think so crowd a preacher man once said if you can get saved and not know it. you can lose it and not know it.
if you wish to end this on the merits of me not getting on board so be it. but i had rather discuss it share our agrees as well as disagrees . a sign in the fellowship hall where we use to attend read.. if every one was just like me. what kind of Church would this be . i have many Pentecostal friends . our forklift driver at work is Pentecostal. i give him flack and he gives it right back. yes he thinks Pentecostals has more Jesus than Baptist.
i had to tell him not to flatter himself so much . because Pentecostals will be the first to rise on resurrections day . his ol chest pushed out big grin on his face. till i told him the dead in Christ go first
very well it was getting rather dull
I have no idea what "Easy there bro" means!
My responses were only aimed at "your" proposition's and suppositions. As I said......I do not look for arguments.
Of course your questions are NO. None of those items can be removed from the plan of salvation. However, you seemed to be implying that "works" was a part of salvation which is what was responding "bro".
IF...IF that is what you are saying then that is in error. Works play NO part of the plan of salvation....NONE. I say again that works are the by-product of being saved and not the instrument of being saved.
Now as for my beliefs....mine are all based only on the Word of God...."bro".
Ephesians 2:8-9 stand all by themselves and need no explanation..
"For by grace you have been saved - Bible Gateway For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
You said............
"i do ask not say my answers are redundant
not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous.
"many of the old skills had become redundant" ·
I have NO idea what you are trying to say. Would you like to explain it differently????
Since you can not find any of those Scriptures......here are a few------i can only go by this Ephesians 2:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
by grace scripture i find no place in scripture faith alone your welcome to hold to that but i aint..
Rom. 3:28-30......
“For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”
Rom. 4:5..........
“But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
Rom. 5:1.......
“therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Rom. 9:30......
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.“
Rom.. 10:4......
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Phil. 3:9...........
“and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
The point is that there are only two options.
1. We are saved by faith alone,
2. We are not.
Since we have faith and works (both conceptually and in practice), then we are either saved by faith alone or by faith and works. There is no other option.
If we see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone.
The problem then comes for those who want to accept good works is then based in James 2:24 and the misunderstanding of what James said.......
“You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”
James is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.
Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith.
James 2:23 says,............
“and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'”
If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith – not real faith – when he said we are not justified by faith alone.
THAT my "bro" is what I hold to!
It's funny how Paul can cover chapter after chapter on how a man is justified apart from works, and James mentions justification in only about 6 verses, yet so many beeline to James to defend their 'faith + works' doctrine.
You are 100% correct but the problem is that they are LOOKING for something to validate what they have been told when James is NOT saying anything different than what Paul said.
You can’t just say you have faith. True faith will absolutely and necessarily yield the fruits of obedience and the works of righteousness. Luther was saying that those works don’t add to that person’s justification at the judgment seat of God. But they do justify his claim to faith before the eyes of man. James is saying, not that a man is justified before God by his works, but that his claim to faith is shown to be genuine as he demonstrates the evidence of that claim of faith through his works.
In other words.....our actions after we "say" we are saved is proven by what we actually "do".
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