*shuffles off to check out those facts.....
What about Ufos and Cryptozoology then?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
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ok. about those snails.... those, err, flesh eating snails....
Today I lean more towards the Amil camp.
I would say there is no such thing as a Messianic Age or the idea of Apostolic Age. In those times as seasons God faithfuly works his gospel in the heart of mankind .He began the work of protecting his spiritual seed in the garden (Geneisis 3:15) and will work it out in us till the last day ..In that way nothing has to disappear in time periods .
Ecclesiastes 3 King James. .To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Not sure where the dispensationalism idea came from, or what it purpose was.?
Mankind will be violating the law of God all the way to the end of time. Not one jot or tittle will be removed until it is cast into the spirit of judgment on the last day. Then it will not rise up and condemn again through corruption another entire creation.
It would all seem to hinged on the parable in Revelation 20. This is whether one will apply the understanding according to the opening verse of Revelation 1:1 or literilze the tongue. . walk by sight . There revealing the kind of understanding we are to seek out. As signified .The language of parables
The idea of not deceiving the nations no more had to do with the 1st century reformation. Christ making desolate the abomination of desolation .Kings in Isreal a Pagan foundation.. Venerable men (law of the fathers) lord it over the the faith (unseen) of the non venerable pew fillers . We are not to be of the number numbering times and people . Comparing themselve to themselves and not compare all things writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) the law of liberty.
All the nations of the world were watching the signified ceremonies as shadows. When Christ said "it is finished as the promised demonstration the 70 ft high veil was rent by the Father from the top to the bottom .Signifying circumssion the torn flesh of the first born Jesus . refered to as our bloody husband Christ in another parable. ..
1 Peter comes to mind. recieving the end of the power of salvation from the beginning. The old testement saints through the cerimonies where given the gospel understanding hid from natural man. Every cerimonial law pointed to the refomation. By the same faith that woked in them we look back to the cross and the glory that followed . No man stting in the Holy of Holies
1 Peter 1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
There was no Jew siting in the holy of Holiness. The father of lies could no longer deceive all the nation that God was a Jewish man . A time of great tribulation had come like never before or ever again it continues to do its work of refoming restoring , mankind spoken of in Joel from all nations.
Mankind could no longer be deceived into thinking the flesh did profit and that it was not the father working in the Son of man to both will and do his god pleasure. They rejected both the Son and the Father as one God. Jesus as the Son of man who came to the will of the father he empowered the son (not as I will but as you the pwerful one. He had already revealed his flesh profits for nothing .(john6)
Unbelieving mankind today is looking to put a fleshly face of God who is not a man The nation’s will be deceived till the end but not in that way (color of flesh) .For a short when leased some will be building a temple made with humans hands , The veil would need to be mended or nothing can be hidden from those who walk by sight .
Revelation 20: 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
It is too bad that you do not believe that the Bible teaches both a Messianic Age and an Apostolic Age. Scripture after Scripture teach us that the Messianic Age is the future period of time on Earth in which the Messiah will reign and bring universal peace and brotherhood, without any evil.
Isaiah 2:4............
They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift sword against nation and they will no longer study warfare.
Isaiah 11:6-9.......
The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
Christian understanding of the messianic age heavily depends on the Scriptures especially the Prophets. The characteristic of the messianic age, as shown in the Scriptures, was to be an extraordinary outpouring of the Spirit on all people. It should bring them special gifts and charisms. Most eminent prophecies are found in the Book of Zechariah 4:6 - 6:8 and Joel 3:1-2.
Acts 2:16 - 21 refer to them proclaiming that the word of the prophets was made flesh in Jesus on the day of Pentecost.
Now, "he has received from the Father the Holy spirit, who was promised." (Acts 2:16-21.17.33)
According to Isaiah, the messianic age was to have its anointed leader, the Messiah, who would be filled with the gifts of the spirit to be able to accomplish his saving work. (Is 11:1-3; 42:1; 61:1; see also Mt 3:16!
I would encourage everyone to read the Word of God and allow it to be your teacher.
Now, to deny the Apostolic Age is actually very problematic my friend as it is a proven fact of real history. You of course are free to deny anything you choose to do, but that does not change what has already taken place whether you accept it or not.
What’s most significant concerning the apostolic age is that the foundations of the Christian church were established then, as the church of Jesus Christ flourished into existence. The facts is that with out the Apostles there would not be a church today!!! To deny the Apostolic Age therefor is to deny that there is a Christian church.
All subsequent generations of the church are built on this dynamic era in church history. It was during the apostolic age that the writing of the New Testament canon of Scripture took place. Under the guidance of the apostles, foundational principles were established for dealing with the multilayered relationships between Jews, Gentiles, and Christians, along with other controversial matters. The church learned to maneuver through external pressures and influences like governments, slave masters, and other religions and to address internal challenges like false teachers, disputes between believers, and church discipline.
Perhaps the weightiest development in the apostolic age was the church’s formation of fundamental views on the nature and significance of Christ and His resurrection. Other critical apostolic teachings dealt with the interpretation of the Jewish Scriptures and the importance of key worship practices such as communion and baptism. The apostolic age gave us the Gospels, which show us what Jesus said and did; and the Epistles, which expound on the meaning and significance of what Jesus said and did.
I would encourage you to give more consideration to those things which you have just said do not exist.
I live in the North Island so I'm safe.ok. about those snails.... those, err, flesh eating snails....
But there are about 10 Million sharks swimming around the island!
Since Enoch and Jasher and all the other Apocryphal books contain "vast amounts of technical and Occult knowledge".......I would submit that everything in those books should be rejected.
Deut. 18:10-12......Tells us to stay away from Occultic matters,
"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. "
Now think. If Alien's were able and did manipulate ALL humans DNA........even as you stated, "In the days of Noah",
then how could we then be sure that Jesus Christ was not a product of Alien's blood instead of God????
That would mean that NO ONE is saved!!! THINK about it for a moment!
1 John 2:3-6 tells us how we can know if we are truly saved by God for sure or not:
How can there be the Messianic Age right now of the King is not present, and is not Jesus doing his High Priestly Role now. and not as the King?
The Bible defines "sons of God" as "born again believers" .Not once are the words "sons of God" accredited to lying sprits that in all power bring lying signs as wonderments to wonder after. (No faith)
Fallen messengers like the apostles (how beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel of Christ) . Some were cohabitating with daughters of men (the Adamic nature of the flesh mankind born dead in their trespasses passes an sin") . The Holy Spirit was protecting the spiritual seed, Christ. A warning not to be unevenly yoked with daughters of men. The genealogy of that unseen seed Christ ended at the birth of the Son of man Jesus.
Bigfoot to me could be unknown Primates, or apes assumed to have died ot, and nessie could be a variety of creatures being seen!
Also in the OT were called angels by that same term!
That would seem to be the idea of the faithless Jewish elders that in unbelif called themselves toghter because of the jeaplosy of the surounding pagan nations .Demanding they be given a King . It exposed thier nakeness revealing they had no faith . God gave them over to do that which they should not of .the abomination of desolation "kings in Isreal" As unbeleivers they had no desire coming from the faithofull words of scripture to serve a King not seen . Give us Ceasar
I Samauel 8: 7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
Jesus right now not as the King, but as our High Priest!
Yes same kind of mesengers as sons of God, born again of God. .How beutifull are their feet. Unlike the feet of the false mesenger .They were cut offf.They provide no understanding from God We walk by the unseen faith. the right side up inspired from above understanding ,
Geneisi3: 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
That is MY Point brother. There can not be!!!!!
The Preterist deny that there is a Messianic rule of 1000 years at all. They say that it has already taken place!
They have to spiritualize every [prophecy in the Bible
We have had this conversation and I can only surmise that you have rejected the Scriptures posted on this. Instead of saying .........
"The Bible defines "sons of God" as "born again believers" .Not once are the words "sons of God" accredited to lying sprits that in all power bring lying signs as wonderments to wonder after. (No faith)"
I would suggest simply saying that "I have questions about whether or not..........................................."!
The "Sons of God" in Job 1:6 are not be born again humans my dear friend. Look at the location where Satan comes with the "Sons of God" -
It is HEAVEN. There were NO MEN IN HEAVEN born again or dead or anywhere in between. There is ONLY ONE MAN in Heaven with a human body and that is the glorified Lord Jesus Christ.
The "Sons of God" in Job must be angels! Now they came with Satan to report to God.
As I detailed earlier, Good Angels would never have to come to report to God. They are already in heaven.
Then secondly, Good angels would never be running with Satan.
CONTEXT and LOCATION demand that the Sons of God in Job 1:6 are "Fallen Angels/Demons".
Now again the Scriptures in Matthew 22:30 as given to us by God Himself says that angels are ASEXUAL! They do not marry neither are given in marriage.
"Not married neither are given in marriage" is the Bibles polite way of saying......NO SEXUAL ACTIVITY.
Fallen Spirit being can not cohabitate with human beings. It is just not possible!
Now, as a student of early Christianity, may I say to you that I am aware that the belief that demons – or fallen angels – regularly have sex with humans runs deep in the Jewish and Christian traditions.
Christian fascination with demons having sex with humans developed significantly in the Dark Ages of the medieval peroid.
Historian Eleanor Janega, has recently documented that it was in the medieval period that beliefs about nocturnal demon sex – those echoed by conspiracy thinkers today – became common.
For example, the legendary magician Merlin, from the tales of King Arthur, was said to have been sired by an incubus, a male demon.
Where am I going with this long drawn out post. I am trying to say in the very nicest way that this idea we are talking about has a logical end to it.
There are Christians who claim to have the knowledge and skills required to “deliver” humans from the bonds of demonic possession, which can include demons lodged in the DNA. You see, they have had Warfare out of spirituality and only THEY have the key for deliverance!
For these Christians, spiritual warfare is a battle against a dangerous set of demonic foes that attack the body as much as the soul.
I encourage everyone to take a step back and think real hard about what is being proposed and believed.
THINK! IF there were Aliens or demons who polluted the human DNA all the way back to Noah.......then there would be no guarantee that the birth line of the Messiah was not polluted!!!!!
If we follow that logic.......then are you really a saved person by the Perfect shed Blood of GOD? Or..............
I'm reading a book called 'Lost Wonders' about extinct species in NZ.
It wasn't long ago that dinosaur fossils were found, and also moa bones (giant flightless bird) so, lots of creatures existed that have since gone extinct. I expect that it's all it is, no need for elaborate theories.
Even scientists don't really want to admit that the great flood (Noah's) wiped out a lot of the bigger species, including dinosaurs, though I suppose a few that survived were probably hunted to extinction. Also as their habitat changed, and they no longer had homes, they had less chance of survival.
It wasn't long ago that dinosaur fossils were found, and also moa bones (giant flightless bird) so, lots of creatures existed that have since gone extinct. I expect that it's all it is, no need for elaborate theories.
Even scientists don't really want to admit that the great flood (Noah's) wiped out a lot of the bigger species, including dinosaurs, though I suppose a few that survived were probably hunted to extinction. Also as their habitat changed, and they no longer had homes, they had less chance of survival.
Hi thanks for the reply
I am in agreement with the idea of spirits not procreating with humans. They have no body by which they could.
But again sons of God beleivers like Job it does not refer to a spirit without a literal physical body made up of the dust of this world .
The context is prayers of the saint .Job begins that way and while praying the accuser of the brother who accuses all believers day in night joined in with the rest of the saints (sons of God ) And God challenged his lying spirit. The father of all lying spirits he is not a man but is the spirit of error that works in fallen mankind as he did in Peter .who was used as one of the antichrists (plural) under the influence of the one antichrist .whom I call legion the spirit of error .
Job 1:5-8 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
In the new order we are given the assurance that the spirit of error called the legion will not interfere with our communication the prayers of the saint the golden vial. He accuses as he did with Job without ceasing we pray without ceasing
Revelation 12:10 ] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Again simply mankind praying to God not seen signified by gold. Gold represents the unseen eternal things of God. (faith)
Revelation 5:8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 8:3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
I am sorry Gare, but I do not agree with your idea of Job 1:6. What I responded to was your assertation in post #160 that that "The Bible defines "sons of God" as "born again believers" .
As I defined that for you we can now see that that was actually not a correct statement.
Again, I can not agree with you that the comment of ........
"The context is prayers of the saint .Job begins that way and while praying the accuser of the brother who accuses all believers day in night joined in with the rest of the saints (sons of God )"
Because the Sons of God in Job 1:6 which CONTEXT demands because the location is in heaven, therefore the Sons of God can not be saints of God.
As I said......there were NO HUMANS IN HEAVEN my dear friend so your thesis is flawed from the very beginning.
Now I love you and do not want to argue, but you repeating the same thing over and over is not going to make it believable. ONLY ONE human is in heaven today. When Job was written there were NO HUMANS in heaven as all believers went to the Paradise side of Sheol waiting on the Resurrection.
Please take time to read Luke 16 to verify what I just posted. Since there wer NO saints in the Location of Heaven where God is then the Sons Of God in Job 1:6 by CONTEXT MUST be angels.
Now again, The passages that provide the clearest meaning of the phrase “son of God” in the Old Testament occur in the book of Job. The first two passages are found in Job 1-2...........
In both passages Satan and the “sons of God” appear before the Lord. It is important to notice that the “sons of God” presented themselves before God. Therefore, since the holy angels in heaven are continually in the presence of God according to Matthew 18:10, the “sons of God” are not holy angels. Instead they are the followers of Satan.
Jesus teaches us in Matthew 12:26 that Satan has his own kingdom. His followers are demons or angels who were cast out of heaven along with Satan. In Luke 10:18 Jesus states that He saw Satan cast out of heaven like lightning (Isaiah 14:15; Ezekiel 28:16-17). Revelation 12:9 helps us understand that some angels had joined Satan in his rebellion and were cast out of heaven too!..............
Revelation 12:7 clearly teaches that Satan and his angels are like an army.
Therefore, we are to understand that the “sons of God” in Job 1:6 and 2:1 are the angels who fell with Satan. They are also called fallen angels, evil angels, spirits or evil spirits in the Bible.
Sons of God in Job 38:7
In Job 38:7 the “sons of God” are angels too! In Job 38 God is speaking to Job and reviewing how the universe was created. In verse 4 God asks Job if he was present when God laid the foundation of the world. Verses 5 and 6 are more questions about the creation. Then verse 7 asks if Job was present when the stars sang and the “sons of God” shouted for joy. Again “sons of God” refers to the holy angels who existed at the time of the creation.
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