I do not agree.
There is NO Apostolic office in the church today for the simply reason that no one today can meet the qualifications found in the Bible.
What the Lord has been doing for 2000 + years.
- Thread starter Marilyn C
- Start date
I do not agree.
There is NO Apostolic office in the church today for the simply reason that no one today can meet the qualifications found in the Bible.
i said it was carried through the office of the preaching of the word !!! what did the apostles teach/preach ? the Bible what do we preach teach the Bible . Paul wrote to Corinthian church i determined know nothing but Jesus Christ him crucified ..psst i never SAID THERE WAS Apostolic office. besides i dont have to be right about everything even tho i do try. the only thing i need be right on is iam saved
`When He (Jesus) ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men......And He Himself gave SOME TO BE APOSTLES, SOME PROPHETS....` (Eph. 4: 8 - 11)
That is true and I agree. I do however believe that that Scripture refers to the 12 who Jesus commissioned to spread the Gospel in Mark 16.
I guess I am trying to say that those original 12 Apostles were a special group who, were specifically chosen to lay the foundation of the church. In the early church the text of Scripture had not been written, and God used these foundational ministries to deliver the inerrant God-breathed Word to His Body, which is the Church - first verbally and then through the Word of God.
Whether or not there are apostles for today, depends on how the word "Apostle" is defined. Biblically, the word “apostle” literally means “one who is sent.” In that sense then yes, there could be an apostle today. So, anyone who was sent by the Lord to do something would be an apostle.
But, IMHO that is a very liberal definition of the word and again, IMHO just is not a sufficient answer. I am speaking about the 12 Apostles who Jesus personally commissioned so that Biblically, an apostle was someone who was involved with Jesus and/or knew of Jesus before his crucifixion and after his crucifixion. Consider the following two sets of verses.
Acts 1:21-22.........
“It is, therefore, necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— 22 beginning with the baptism of John, until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these should become a witness with us of His resurrection.
1 Corth.9:1.......
“Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?”
Forgiven61.....It is much more involved than that.
No one suggested that you were wrong. Nothing said is about right or wrong.
The Apostles WROTE the New Test........we today teach those Scriptures' that were given to them by the Lord. Big difference.!!!
The point I was speaking to is that there are many today who call themselves "Apostles". What I am trying to clarify is that in the classic Bible understanding of what an Apostle is.....there can not be an Apostle today. That office simply can not exist.
Acts 1:21-22.......
"Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become A WITNESS WITH US OF HIS RESURRECTION."
Therefore, ALLLLLLL the apostles were to be eye witnesses to Christ and his Resurrection and they repeatedly stated this in their writings (see 1 John 1:1,3 and Peter 1:16, Luke 1:1-2).
Therefore we can know the certainty of the things we are being taught by eyewitnesses. We don't have any certainty of those things we are being taught by those who are not eyewitnesses. Especially if they are trying to tell us there are "New and Improved" revelations from God during the end times.
1 Corth. 15:8.......
"Then he [Christ] appeared to James, then to ALLLLL the apostles, and LAST of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."
This means there wouldn't be any other apostles after Paul, otherwise there wouldn't be such a great need for them to remember what he said.
Revelation 21:14.......
"The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14
If there are more than 12 apostles, why aren't there more than 12 foundations for New Jerusalem???
The 12 apostles were for the Jews. Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. The Jews have an earthly inheritance in the Millennial Kingdom. The Church has a heavenly inheritance.
thank you for your response time and effort. i have commented on all i care to post on . i dont ask you agree with me apparently you need to be correct have a good day
Hi Major,
So you agree that when the Lord ascended He gave SOME APOSTLES... However the Lord chose the 12 BEFORE He ascended. (& later Matthias instead of Judas).
I wrote some of the Apostles the Lord gave AFTER HE ASCENDED -
`Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy.....as apostles of Christ.` (1 Thess. 1:1, 2: 6),
`Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who were in Christ before me.` (Rom. 16: 7)
Marilyn.
i find this interesting while i do not hold to man self proclaimed titles apostles prophets . i took a look at what Adam Clarke had to say yes a commentator his thoughts Of note among the apostles — Whether this intimates that they were noted apostles or only highly reputed by the apostles, is not absolutely clear; but the latter appears to me the most probable. They were not only well known to St. Paul, but also to the rest of the apostles.
you have done your home work and a very good defense has been posted. while i have no dog in this discussion other than just a comment . it is interesting
Thank you forgiven,
As I was raised in the Apostolic denomination you would therefore think I should know of such. Thus said I do not believe of `men self proclaiming` they are Apostles, such as the NAR, (New Apostolic Reformation).
We NEVER called such and such Apostle ......, but pastor..... However the ministry gift of an apostle was/is recognisable. There are discernible spiritual, characteristics of an apostle.
much of the apostolic teaching i dont agree with but i do consider them part of the Body i pastor a Baptist CHURCH BUT ONLY PREACH the word . i do support the trinity teaching
Do you refer to the Apostolic group I was brought up with or the NAR?
My husband and I are not in any denomination, but relate in house groups, and with ministers and people of all denominations.
Thus said we believe (& was taught) -
1. Salvation through Jesus.
2. Water baptism for believers.
3. Holy living.
4. Infilling of the Holy Spirit.
5. Gifts of the Holy Spirit to edify, encourage and exhort.
6. Ministry gifts of the ascended Lord.
7. The Eternal Purposes of God through Christ.
I think you would believe most of those.
Thus said we believe (& was taught) -
1. Salvation through Jesus.
2. Water baptism for believers.
3. Holy living.
4. Infilling of the Holy Spirit.
5. Gifts of the Holy Spirit to edify, encourage and exhort.
6. Ministry gifts of the ascended Lord.
7. The Eternal Purposes of God through Christ.
I think you would believe most of those.
Hello Marilyn;
Please clarify for me. When you shared that you were raised in the Apostolic denomination, are you referring to the Apostolic Church? This is a denomination a little over 100 years old.
I don't feel you were describing the New Apostolic Reformation which is what would take more time to break down their combination of doctrines, denomination or movements, however, all pointing to the Trinity.
Or, are you and your husband currently not worshiping as a denomination, today?
The sacraments you listed are Biblical and important to learn and live in discipleship.
God bless you, Marilyn, your husband and family.
Yes, bob, that is the denomination, which came out of the Welsh Revival. My grandfather (Scottish)was mentored by men from the Welsh Revival. He was sent to Australia to help establish the Apostolic work there. (here). He became the President (leader) of the work in New Zealand and my uncle (grandfather`s son) became the President of the work here in Australia. Both were recognised Apostles, here and overseas.
As to my hubby and I, we are not in an Apostolic denomination, as there is none in our area. We used to travel a long way and stay all day, however we now work locally. Others have now joined us across this valley in 3 towns. Each has a core group that meet when able to. The focus is prayer, fellowship and receiving & appreciating of each other`s giftings. We reach out to others who do not go to a public meeting as well as unbelievers.
It is the 2 Timothy 2: 2 Principle. Paul (amid peers) - Timothy - faithful men - others. (great grandchildren as it were) You may know of your grandchildren and great grandchildren but you don`t `lord it over` them. They are mentored, (discipled) by their `father and mother` in the Lord. (as Paul, Timothy and Silvanus did, 1 Thess. 1: 1, 2: 7 & 11 ) .
We are not trammeled by business matters such as buildings, government regulations, finance, organising people, when and how and what fore etc they are to meet. No pew sitting, but all contributing and out in the community relating and walking with people in everyday life. And not just giving a pamphlet to a meeting, but actually relating with people through their ups and downs.
There are believers who have been elders in different denominations, who now work this way, plus other ministry gifts. We also have been invited to speak at a local denomination and also at their house meetings. We are not against public meetings run by organisations, however we do find working this way without the constraints of business matters, as what is needed in out area.
Hope that gives you some idea of how we operate.
Marilyn.
Correct. At the Great Commission Jesus, before He ascended spoke to 11 men.
Before ascension in Mark 16 the Lord Jesus said in the Great Commission.................
"Afterward he appeared to the ELEVEN (11) as they as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Later He appeared to Paul and commissioned him as an Apostle.
Silvanus (Silas) and Timothy were not included in the original 11 of Mark 16.
Forgiven61. I have NO desire to be correct and I have NO desire to argue with you. I do however have a desire to the Biblically correct on doctrinal issues, and you as an admitted pastor should feel that same need . IMHO.
Good to know.
Marilyn......allow me to say to you that my input on this matter has to do with those individuals in the body of Christ mostly in the Charismatic Pentecostal faith who insist on speaking in tongues, faith healings by "men" and Prosperity teachers. Those individuals when questioned or approached to prove or validate their abilities then claim the name of "Apostles" and because of that, then they have the same ability as did those 12 Apostles.
That was my only focus in this thread. The correct understanding of who was and who can be an Apostle.
I pray that you will continue to be blessed in your ministry!
i am ending this at this moment my comments / discussion remarks was that the apostle office was filled in through the pastor/preacher preaching the word.. which is exactly what the apostles done. issue solved lets not get out of whack .you say you jumped the fence i say i crossed the fence. who is right? BOTH the fence was crossed in each others own way
a very interesting revival.. farmers so glorious saved the farm animals did not know how to react.