Why Christians are Leaving Church

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Christians are leaving the church because it's all about them.
What they like
What they believe
What they want
What they dislike

Bottom line too many carnal Christians THINKING they are walking in the Spiritual realm of Christ.

 

[Lanolin]

The story of Jacob and Rachel and Leah is so sad. Rachel was so mean to Leah. LEah tried to make Jacob happy by bearing him many sons but he didnt love her. It doesnt really say, but after Rachel died in childbirth, maybe Jacob did come to value Leah.

On carnal 'christians' I would say as Jesus said about the disciples who left, they went out from us because they were not of us.
See 1 John 2:19-23

I dont think its a big deal if a church fellowship is small in numbers i.e not all churches are huge megachurches. I would not worry about it at all. If someone is a genuine christian, they will always return to the fold. Jesus will make sure of that.
Its kind of like magnets. All those attracted to Jesus will be drawn to the Him. All those who oppose Him will be repelled. GOd wants worshippers who worship him in spirit and in truth. He does not specify you have to worship Him on this or that mountain, or this or that location.

Otherwise people would always be bound in one place and never go anywhere. There wouldnt be an such things as missionaries. So when is it that christians are actually leaving the church? ...when they are to going out, with Gods comission to evangelise the world.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

So when is it that christians are actually leaving the church? ...when they are to going out, with Gods comission to evangelise the world.

They don't leave the Church when God sends them out.

 

[Lanolin]

They leave...to plant new churches.
What does Paul say when he was sent out. It is better for me to depart than stay in the flesh.
Pauls example was that he used to persecute christians so much that God made a way for him to get away from Jerusalem and all the people he used to persecute by doing His work anyway, but with the Gentiles. That was his Damascus moment.

Love said walk is talking about something different though, its christians who are disoeying and not repenting, maybe not given any grace or mercy or kindness to repent. But then thats only one side of the story. We can forgive up to up to four hundred and ninety times, but the unforgiveable sin, cannot be forgiven in this life or the next. What is that exactly, can adultery by classed as that? Depends. But even a murderer like Paul is forgiven, and an adulterer like David can be restored. Were they confronted? Yes. Paul had his Damascus moment and David had Nathan show him his wrong. The thing is they listened. If they had not listened, maybe it would be a different story.

Did the woman in question listen and repent? It doesnt sound like she did. Did she listen when two people confronted her, I dont know, if she didnt then..fair enough tell it to the church. If the church is sued then so what. Her own actions and behaviour condemns her.

If she was falsely accused then thats a different story again. If this is what this post is about then the issue is with false accusations and unrighteous judgement then thats is different. You need to be 100 percent clear on why christians would leave a church. IF that is the case then you are talking about apostasy.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

What does Paul say when he was sent out. It is better for me to depart than stay in the flesh.
Pauls example was that he used to persecute christians so much that God made a way for him to get away from Jerusalem and all the people he used to persecute by doing His work anyway, but with the Gentiles. That was his Damascus moment.

Hi Lanolin,
I am not sure if you caught what you wrote but I think you are thinking of two different events here.
When Paul was talking about better to depart or stay in the flesh he was referring to going home to be with the Lord or staying here on earth and continue teaching.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Lanolin]

Probably.
Think he wrote that to one of his churches about being away from them in the flesh but with them in spirit. Or something like that. He could have been meaning both, although he kept in touch with many of the churches he planted, but obviously couldnt stay with them all.

In the same vein Jesus said goodbye to his disciples especially Peter he was going away for a few days and where he went they could not go. They didnt know he was going to rescue souls in hell...but same thing, sometimes believers need to leave their flock so they can bring in other sheep.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Think he wrote that to one of his churches about being away from them in the flesh but with them in spirit. Or something like that. He could have been meaning both, although he kept in touch with many of the churches he planted, but obviously couldnt stay with them all.

Phillipians 1:23-25
23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24. Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

Paul was tired and ready to go home and be with Christ. He chose to stay to continue teaching.

Colossians 2 : 5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

This is DEEP INTERCESSORY PRAYER

Blessings
FCJ

 

[JohnC]

A big reason people "church hop" is that the many churches put no effort into getting folks plugged in and equipping them for service. Or worse - ignore folks... Often in these places - you see a church "Running on the back of the pastor" with ineffective deacons and elders.... Perhaps the deacons and elders have taken their positions as a status or authority badge - and are not committed to the hard work of equipping the body for service ministry. Perhaps they are experiencing medical, job, or family issues which take up huge amounts of their time. Whatever the reason - the result is the same - people aren't getting plugged in and staying plugged in....

Just like we have a relationship with Jesus - we also have a relationship with our local church....

If all you do is sit on the pew on Sunday morning - it's trivially easy to pull up and go somewhere else.... There's nothing holding you there....

On the other hand....
If you make friends in the place...
If you have a bunch of family going to the place...
And your kids make lots of friends in the place
And the church gets you plugged in to a service or ministry....
And you are now helping out, doing service, and getting equipped......

It's a lot harder to pick up and leave.

And when you look at places that seem to be able to consistently withstand pastor changes without major trauma and congregation losses - you find places which rely far less on the individual contribution of the pastor.... In some cases - the places operate "in spite of the pastor".... These places generally have deacons and elders which are fairly strong leaders, effective, and equipped.... And so they ensure critical ministry and services are taken care of. And they ensure there is no gap in recruitment, discipleship, or equipping ministries.....

I grew up in a place like the 2nd church.... The actual sunday morning services were painful... But the place was alive with active, vibrant service ministries and other areas to be plugged in.... It was pretty typical for sunday school, week night bible study, or youth group attendance to exceed the sunday morning worship attendance..... Pastor changes generally didn't effect the place much until we got a fellow who wanted to rule all the other ministries which actually brought people in - and he destroyed the place. They lost 90% of the membership in 5 years of his "pastoring" and then left soon after.... But the damage was done. 25 years later it really has not recovered....

The church I go to now is more like the 1st one..... And my days there are numbered....

 

[Major]

Hello love said walk;

You did a good job articulating your message of including love and gentleness to a brother or sister when pointing out their fault. Do you speak often to groups of people in ministry? I do remember the story about the woman with 4 children and the Oklahoma church in 1980 but I would like to stick with the verb of your thread.

It is sad when a Christian leaves the church but I agree what was said in this thread, many Christians leave the church only to seek another church, for various reasons. That is a big difference from leaving the church altogether and proclaiming apostacy. If a person practiced Christianity for a little while and didn't take salvation seriously, then they were not really truthful about receiving Christ in the first place.

When people leave the church setting for a small home church, it should be to glorify God. But if its to withdraw from working out people problems, I do understand some Christian relationships just cannot work it out. It happens, just like the Christians who leave the church altogether for the sole reason that they just don't want a relationship with Jesus.

But the majority of Christians that want to bond in the fellowship, need to realize that Christians are about being in people relationships. Why? So we can all grow in the body and relationship with Christ. Thats what we do.

Lets share about the positive side of the Christian church and community. We are seeing incredible growth of new believers in the Koreas, China, India, the Bible Belt in America, while the 3rd wave or Pentecostal Church is growing in the Central and South Americas and Africa.

At the church I serve, our missions ministry provides preliminary reports annually, and the results in 2018 will be very encouraging. People are coming to Christ Jesus!

For example, in a 10 year comparison, in 2008 preliminary reports from World Religion, World Christian Encyclopedia, Operation World and the Pew Research Group all consistently reported Christians being the largest religion at 2.2 billion or 33% and in 2017 2.1 billion or 32%. Muslims were second at 1.387 billion or 21.09% and in 2017 1.3 billion or 19.60%.

In your video, Why Christians Are Leaving The Church is directed at the people problems we're having in the church, Sal, then I concur with you, brother.

A Spiritually mature Christian will discern that 9 times out of 10 the trials in the church are people problems, and 9 times out of 10 the people problems are the main reason people leave the church. Only to find another Christian church with new people.

A mature Christian is not going to leave the church because the building has a leak, or the church can't afford to throw a Christmas party, or the new pew Bibles are paperbook instead of hardcover, or the cookies at the bake sale were oreos instead of vanilla wafers. We can bring resolve to these issues in the church.

God sees everything ongoing in His churches on all four corners of the earth. How dare any of us claim to know what Jesus himself does not know.

Pastors Shepherds, God has given you a huge responsibility, to solidify the structure of the sheep pen. Jesus chose his Shepherd with a Shepherd's heart, a gentle spirit that feeds his church family the Word of God, he protects them from false doctrine and sinful behaviors, and helps them serve God. The Pastor consults other Pastors. The Pastor studies and must continue to study so he doesn't become limited in his teaching. This benefits the sheep who follow their Shepherds.

God's wrath is on the Pastor who grumbles against his sheep. Pastors, respect the intelligence of the church family. Hear them out but don't grumble behind their backs.

Pastors Shepherds, if you are making mistakes that lead to sin, promiscuity with women members or outside the church, dabauchery when no ones looking, a contentious spirit with the men, mishandling money, this becomes a cancer that will spread amongst the congregation. If you cannot walk away from sin, then don't wait to be caught and voted out. God knows your heart and it is best to step down on your own instead of keeping it a secret from your church family.

Church family, servants, leaders, musicians, and nominal Christians, please, always pray for your Pastor. He already took on huge responsibilities when he accepted the Pastoral Calling. Love and pray for your Pastor because he is going to make mistakes, lots of them and if the mistakes point to Jesus, then the more you need to pray for your Pastor. Uplift him for doing 9 things right but don't condemn him when he does 1 thing wrong. Here's wise counsel, please forgive him.

God's wrath is on the church member who grumbles against his or her Pastor. Who are we to tell God He made a mistake with appointing His Shepherd? Church family, you may not agree with the appointment of your Pastor, but please respect his calling. Speak with him. God already sees all, and if need be will make changes in His time.

Finally, love said walk, I'm not dismissing the woman with the 4 children but these points were about the overall people problems in the church and ways we can help miminize Christians leaving the church. When you present your next message on video, please look at all angles so all sides are presented, brother.

God bless you and your family.

Good stuff. I agree with you!

The bottom line is that 1 out of a 100 people read the Bible. The other 99 read the Christian.

My experience is that when people are offended, they will then manufacture a reason to leave the church instead of telling the truth.

Over the years I have seen these manufactured reasons...….
1.
A couple said that they left the church because it did not read the pledges on July 4th.

It was later found out that the husband had been found guilty of stealing from his job and was in jail.

2.
A man said that he stopped coming to church because the preacher was to fundamental.

It was later revealed that several women of the church had complained to the deacons about this man fondling them and the deacons had confronted him and told him his actions could not be tolerated.

3.
A woman stopped attending church because she said that the church did not have an adequate youth program.

It was later known and printed in the local News Journal that she had embezzled $250,000 and was arrested and incarcerated.

4.
A married man said that he was not coming to church any more because the church did not sing all of the verses of the songs from the hymn book.

It was later revealed that he was having an affair with the church secretary who was also married.

Now I may be very, very wrong here and I am absolutely sure that people leave churches for all kinds of reasons, but it seems to me that a large number of them leave because of "sin."

I am sure that the if the story given in the video was in fact correct and those men did as was said, that would be a real problem in the way that it was done...……."Not that it was done".

All sin must be confronted when it happens in the church of God as it is an affront to God Himself. But it must be done in a caring, Christian way so that the person being confronted does not feel attacked or ostracized in any way. The Bible reason for this is so that the brother/sister will be rescued and turned from their sin.

 

[Major]

Hey friends, I made this video for my fellowship about reasons why people leave church, and I'd love to hear your thoughts about what I mention in the video.

I'd love to hear anything insights from your own experience and your own wisdom

I watched your video. You are very correct in your comments on love and treating others with love.

However, may I also say to you that we as Christian in fact are told to judge others. I realize that you may not have been taught that but it is nonetheless Biblical.

Perhaps no verse or teaching is so taken out of context and misapplied as Matt. 7:1...……………
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.”

If you keep reading, in verse 6 Jesus says...……..
“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine….”

But in in verse 15 He adds...…….
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”

To obey those verses, you must make some fairly astute judgments! You must judge that a person is a dog or a swine or a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Furthermore, in 1 Corth. 5:12, Paul tells the church that they are responsible to judge those within the church. Practicing biblical church discipline does not violate Jesus’ command, “Judge not.”

Now, having said that, it is not acceptable to be rude, or angry or chase individuals around town to confront them on their sin when they are a church member, but their sin must be confronted.

All sin, when left undone to run its course will be like a cancer in any church and it will destroy the church just like mold on a loaf of bread.
How the confrontation is done is what must be done in a Godly, Christlike manner but it must be done.

In 1 Corth. 5:7 Paul commands...………
“Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened.”

Of course we know that Leaven (yeast) is a type of sin. If you put a small amount of yeast in flour, it spreads throughout the entire lump (5:6). Paul is saying symbolically what he also (5:2, 13) states plainly, that the church needed to remove the sinning man so that the purity of the church would be restored and the sin would not spread any further.

You can see this principle in a family. If the parents do not consistently and impartially discipline a defiant child, very soon the other children learn that there are no consequences if they disobey their parents. The sin of the first child spreads to the others. The same thing happens in a classroom with a teacher who does not enforce discipline. Soon the entire class is out of control. On the government level, if the authorities do not enforce the laws, the whole country soon devolves into anarchy.
https://bible.org/article/dealing-s...iscipline-matthew-1815-17-1-corinthians-51-13

 

[Lanolin]

That is true I first went to a church much like the 1st one. GOd had me there for a time and then He showed me church 2. I find that pastors who are very controlling can turn people away even when they are trying to bring people in. Its kind of a paradox. Whereas if a pastor just trusts in God to bring people, and lets everyone operate in the body with Jesus as the head, the church functions more healthy. Maybe its the difference between serving and leading or micromanaging.

Are we all servants (even Jesus had this role) or is one person the boss with everyone else as underlings. Cos remember above us all is heavenly Father, I think when people try and usurp Gods position and make themelves into the pope, for example, it becomes not a church but more like a bureucracy.

 

[Major]

That is true I first went to a church much like the 1st one. GOd had me there for a time and then He showed me church 2. I find that pastors who are very controlling can turn people away even when they are trying to bring people in. Its kind of a paradox. Whereas if a pastor just trusts in God to bring people, and lets everyone operate in the body with Jesus as the head, the church functions more healthy. Maybe its the difference between serving and leading or micromanaging.

Are we all servants (even Jesus had this role) or is one person the boss with everyone else as underlings. Cos remember above us all is heavenly Father, I think when people try and usurp Gods position and make themelves into the pope, for example, it becomes not a church but more like a bureucracy.

I understand what you are saying but I think that you should realize that there has to be an authority.

A pastor, to be effective must to the very same thing that managers in business do and that is to "delegate" responsibility to others. He has deacons and elders and Bible teachers who must be involved in the ministry which reduces the...….."controlling" effect that you spoke of.

 

[bobinfaith]

They don't leave the Church when God sends them out.

I understand what you are saying but I think that you should realize that there has to be an authority.
A pastor, to be effective must to the very same thing that managers in business do and that is to "delegate" responsibility to others. He has deacons and elders and Bible teachers who must be involved in the ministry which reduces the...….."controlling" effect that you spoke of.

Amen, FC Jim and Major;

God bless you and your families.

 

[Abdicate]

Hey friends, I made this video for my fellowship about reasons why people leave church, and I'd love to hear your thoughts about what I mention in the video.

I'd love to hear anything insights from your own experience and your own wisdom

Honestly, because in our hearts is written the word of God and the Kingdom of God is by power not by words and the buildings today are filled with words and no power. So people are fed up with charlitains. It's why I left. They only want numbers, my tithes, and to buy their sermons. There is very little relationship building or reconciliation taught even though that is our actual ministry. This is also why people demand to see proof of God, (search the Philippine President's challenge) and most Christians cannot produce the power. It's so bad, it's actually taught against in churches because they cannot explain the discrepancy in their lives based on the word of God, therefore, they build whole theologies around why it's no longer viable today, dismissing the word of God. Even when Jesus Himself said these are the signs of those that follow Him, it is rejected as not being really said, but added later. I've witnessed the power and I have been used by God with it, but it's solely by Him and Him alone. That is why people are leaving buildings. I grew up with the gifts of the Spirit belonged only for the 12 (even though there were 13), and never taught about the 70 sent with power. So, do you believe the word of God or men making merchandise of you?

2 Peter 2:3 (ESV)
And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Peter 2:3 (KJV)
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

If their words are from God, put them on YouTube for FREE (Romans 8:32), not like those that give you 8 mins on YouTube and then a link to buy the rest, or their books, or DVDs. Why do they need $400m buildings? A jet to fly around in? I say, they have their reward. Why should I see you stand at the Dome of the Rock to preach for 15 mins out of 28 mins and talk about your next preaching location and a new bible study series the rest of the time? Indeed, a workman is worth their hire, but George Mueller ran 120 orphanages in the UK without government help, sermons, books sales, bake sales, or speaking fees. He spoke only to God, his El Shaddai (God's breasts - as in all a child needs to succeed from the mother) Who provided every one of his (and those under his care) needs - 100%. That's power. Those buildings still stand today as a university after he built them through this same method of faith in God's abilities Who delivered.

Constantine, when he became a "christian," built the modern church like synagogues and gave the "preacher" a salary. Beware.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

If their words are from God, put them on YouTube for FREE (Romans 8:32), not like those that give you 8 mins on YouTube and then a link to buy the rest, or their books, or DVDs. Why do they need $400m buildings? A jet to fly around in? I say, they have their reward.

I say you only have half the story.
If God calls you to build houses, don't buy any trucks, machinery or tools or materials.
After all why do you need all that?

No offense Brother
But it's sad when we nit pick what others do by our own thinking and are not apart of God's request unto them.
Blessings to you and your family

 

[love said walk]

I watched your video. You are very correct in your comments on love and treating others with love.

However, may I also say to you that we as Christian in fact are told to judge others. I realize that you may not have been taught that but it is nonetheless Biblical.

Perhaps no verse or teaching is so taken out of context and misapplied as Matt. 7:1...……………
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.”

If you keep reading, in verse 6 Jesus says...……..
“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine….”

But in in verse 15 He adds...…….
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”

To obey those verses, you must make some fairly astute judgments! You must judge that a person is a dog or a swine or a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Furthermore, in 1 Corth. 5:12, Paul tells the church that they are responsible to judge those within the church. Practicing biblical church discipline does not violate Jesus’ command, “Judge not.”

Now, having said that, it is not acceptable to be rude, or angry or chase individuals around town to confront them on their sin when they are a church member, but their sin must be confronted.

All sin, when left undone to run its course will be like a cancer in any church and it will destroy the church just like mold on a loaf of bread.
How the confrontation is done is what must be done in a Godly, Christlike manner but it must be done.

In 1 Corth. 5:7 Paul commands...………
“Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened.”

Of course we know that Leaven (yeast) is a type of sin. If you put a small amount of yeast in flour, it spreads throughout the entire lump (5:6). Paul is saying symbolically what he also (5:2, 13) states plainly, that the church needed to remove the sinning man so that the purity of the church would be restored and the sin would not spread any further.

You can see this principle in a family. If the parents do not consistently and impartially discipline a defiant child, very soon the other children learn that there are no consequences if they disobey their parents. The sin of the first child spreads to the others. The same thing happens in a classroom with a teacher who does not enforce discipline. Soon the entire class is out of control. On the government level, if the authorities do not enforce the laws, the whole country soon devolves into anarchy.
https://bible.org/article/dealing-s...iscipline-matthew-1815-17-1-corinthians-51-13

Major may be I should have been clearer, I firmly believe in judgement.......I couldn't agree with it more.........i have actually been in conflict with church leadership for not taking bad behavior seriously, I just believe that there's an appraoch for judgement, I can be very stern, but I believe you can be stern and loving......in the context of my video I was talking about not putting someone down,,,,but pointing them in the right direction........long story short I believe you can be stern and judgmental as you like as long as you are pointing people in the right direction instead of putting them down and making them feel bad about themselves


when I was a youth leader I was incredibly stern with young people who misbehaved but they all loved me for it because they recognised that their behavior was not how they liked to be seen.......anyway, hope i was clearer Major

 

[Abdicate]

I say you only have half the story.
If God calls you to build houses, don't buy any trucks, machinery or tools or materials.
After all why do you need all that?

No offense Brother
But it's sad when we nit pick what others do by our own thinking and are not apart of God's request unto them.
Blessings to you and your family

Sorry Brother, but I just quoted the scriptures. Have a nice day.

 

[Lanolin]

Unles the Lord builds the house, the people labour in vain. See Psalm 127

I think people who are in the natural can't see the spiritual. Jesus christ, being the cornerstone, the apostles and prophets our foundation, believers as lively stones. What is God building...his church. Where is He dwelling, not in any holie of holies at Jerusalem in a grand temple, but in us, as we are temples of the holy spirit.

So what does this mean, why do people get confused and want to worship mammon AND God, both at the same time. Why does God need our money? He doesnt. Caesar needs the money or whoevers head is on the coins and banknotes, because Jesus head isn't. God isn't actually a tax collector. He never was, and that was a man made thing. This isnt meaning that you shouldnt pay your taxes, but you cant confuse what the govt requires with what God requires.


Sorry if off topic just wanted to address this.

 

[Lanolin]

Major may be I should have been clearer, I firmly believe in judgement.......I couldn't agree with it more.........i have actually been in conflict with church leadership for not taking bad behavior seriously, I just believe that there's an appraoch for judgement, I can be very stern, but I believe you can be stern and loving......in the context of my video I was talking about not putting someone down,,,,but pointing them in the right direction........long story short I believe you can be stern and judgmental as you like as long as you are pointing people in the right direction instead of putting them down and making them feel bad about themselves


when I was a youth leader I was incredibly stern with young people who misbehaved but they all loved me for it because they recognised that their behavior was not how they liked to be seen.......anyway, hope i was clearer Major

This is good practice for example lets look at discipline in your own home. If your child is misbehaving you dont yell at them in front of all their other siblings do you. First you go to them alone. If they dont listen then you call on the seond witness...say if you are mum, then you call dad and then you both deal with the child. Only after thry still havent listened would you tell all the other members of the family, and if still not repentant, and this is extreme, would you consider a divorce. I mean, a banishment. Maybe to a treehouse. But they are always welcome to come back when they get hungry.

 

[eric m williams]

Christians are leaving the church because it's all about them.
What they like
What they believe
What they want
What they dislike

Bottom line too many carnal Christians THINKING they are walking in the Spiritual realm of Christ.

I have been looking for an assembly for years now, and I have yet to find one.
Unbiblical liturgy and doctrine aside, the current trend of obsessively ridiculous volume (regardless of worship or music style) is everywhere here. Even churches in small buildings with small assemblies crank up the volume (often to the point of window rattling).
I cannot physically tolerate it. When I try, I am unable to concentrate and inevitably leave with a headache.
Before anyone starts hollering about this being simple preference, please understand that these are testable sound levels that would lead to OSHA fines if these assemblies had more employees. If your band/choir/ministers have to where hearing protection/filters to do their 'job' then its too loud for everyone else.